The Numb3rs Book Club

[prbabe]

*Theme from Masterpiece Theatre plays in the background*

Well ladies and gentlemen (http:///#), besides working like a dog (which I am obviously not doing right now) and watching Numb3rs, I like to read. Thanks to mathfan9 and others on the board, I discovered that I like reading about math and science. It seems like a lot of you do too.

So, I thought to myself, why not start a book thread so that we can talk about Numb3rs related books? I went through previous threads and gathered recommendations from fellow posters (see list below). I figured that it would be good to create a thread so that this information could be found with ease.

There are no rules for this thread. If you want to recommend a Numb3rs related book, ask questions about a book that you happen to be reading, engage in a stimulating debate regarding something you’ve read, whatever…feel free to do it here.

Happy reading!

Edited to say - I will update the book list as new recommendations are posted.
Edited to also say - You will find many of the following titles at your local library. Thanks for the reminder BeckyS!

Numb3rs Book Club Recommendations (and who recommended it)
In No Particular Order…

Imagining Numbers by Barry Manzur - Molly
The Man Who Loved Only Numbers: Paul Erdos & The Search for Mathematical Truth by Paul Hoffman - CHeuton
The Millennium Problems by Keith Devlin - mathfan9
The Golden Ratio by Mario Livio - Infinity
Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared Diamond - mathfan9
Mathematics: The Science of Patterns by Keith Devlin - mathfan9
Life by the Numbers by Keith Devlin - mathfan9
The Mathematical Tourist by Ivars Peterson – mathfan9
Islands of truth: A Mathematical Mystery Cruise by Ivars Peterson – mathfan9
The Wooden Books Series www.woodenbooks.com (http://www.woodenbooks.com/) - Infinity
Chance: A Guide to Gambling, Love, the Stock Market & Just About everything Elseby Amir D. Aczel – LeWombat
Innumeracy by John Allen Paulos – mathfan9
Trigonometric Delights by Eli Maor - mathfan9
Genuis by James Gleick - CHeuton
Feynman’s Lost Lecture (Book & CD) by David Goodstein and Judith Goodstein – CHeuton
Chaos by James Gleick - mathfan9
Men of Mathematics by E.T. Bell – codebraker
Gödel, Escher, Bach by Douglas Hofstadter – codebraker
A History of Pi by Petr Beckman – codebraker
Wind: How the Flow of Air Has Shaped Life, Myth and the Land by Jan DeBlieu - marie_delucy
A Beautiful Mind (http:///#): The Life of Mathematical Genius and Nobel Laurate John Nash by Sylvia Nasar - mathfan9
Alpha and Omega by Charles Seife - antineutrino
Zero by Charles Seife - antineutrino
The Nothing That Is: A Natural History of Zero by Robert Kaplan and Ellen Kaplan - mathfan9
1089 and All That: A Journey Into Mathematics by David Acheson - mkword
Strange Curves, Counting Rabbits and Other Mathematical Explorations by Keith Ball - mkword
The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene - Infinity
A Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawking - anil099
Fabric of the Cosmos by Brian Greene - deb
The Universe In a Nutshell by Stephen Hawking - Infinity
Tipping Point:How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference by Malcolm Gladwell - nmbs
What Do You Care What Other People Think? Further Adventures of a Curious Character by Richard P. Feynman and
Ralph Leighton - Divia
Perfectly Reasonable Deviations From The Beaten Track: The Letters of Richard P. Feynman by Timothy Ferris, Richard P. Feynman and Michelle Feynman - Divia
"Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman!" Adventures of a Curious Character by Richard P. Feynman, Ralph Leighton and Ed ward Hutchings - Divia
How Real is Real by Paul Watzalawick - marie_delucy
In Their Own Way by Thomas Armstrong - Wildfyre
Nature's Gambit: Child Prodigies and the Development of Human Potential by David Henry Feldman and Lynn T. Goldsmith -
Alamo Girl
Ockham's Razor: A Historical and Philosophical Analysis of Ockham's Principle of Parisony by Roger Ariew - Alamo Girl
Ockham's Theory of Terms: Part I of the Summa Logicae by William of Ockhman, Michael J Loux (Translator) - Alamo Girl
The Philosophy of William Ockham: In the Light of It's Principles by Armand Maurer - Alamo GirlThe First Three Minutes by Steven Weinberg - Brainysmurf00
The Code Book by Simon Singh - Brainysmurf00
Meditations by Descartes - Brainysmurf00
Feynman's Rainbow: A Search for Beauty in Physics and Life by Leonard Mlodinow - Azukichan
Fermat's Enigma by Simon Singh - lilavati
Prime Obsession by John Derbyshire (about the Riemann Hypothesis) - lilavati
Does God Play Dice by Ian Stewart - lilavati
Algebra for Dummies - Because everyone could use a refresher course, right DK!!!!! :wink: - nypam
The Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan - AMG
A Different Universe: Reinventing Physics From the Bottom Down by Robert B. Laughlin (1998 Nobel Prize Winner - Physics) - Grace480
The Calculus by Louis Leithold - Grace480
Incompleteness: The Proof and Paradox of Kurt Godel by Rebecca Goldsetin - penguingal
The World's Most Famous Math Problem by Marilyn vos Savant - Improviser
The Man Who Knew Infinity: A Life of the Genius Ramanujan by Robert Kanigel - Improviser
The Quantum World: Quantum Physics for Everyone by Kenneth W. Ford and Paul Hweitt - Alamo Girl
The Great Beyond: Higher Dimentions, Parallel Universes and the Extraordinary Search for a Theory of Everything by Paul Halpern - Alamo Girl
Series of Knots and Everything - Vol 9 Combinatorial Physics by T Bastin and CW Kilmister - fadedambition (Warning - According to fadedambition, the book is more a philosophical justification for combinatorial physics than developing it)
The Second Creation by Crease and Mann - mathfan9
The World Book of Math Power by Dick Dell - Wildfyre
Math Power: How to Help Your Child Love Math, Even if You Don't by Patricia Clark Kenschaft - mathfan9
The Lady Tasting Tea: How Statistics Revolutionized Science in the Twentieth Century by David Salsburg - mathfan9
Programming in Mathematica by Roman Maeder - Fadedambition
The Principles of Mathematics by Bertrand Russell - Fadedambition
Graphics with Mathematica: Fractals, Julia Sets, Patterns and Natural Form by Chonat Getz - Fadedambition
Introduction to Scientific Programming: Computational Problem Solving Using Mathematica and C by Joesph Zachary - Fadedambition
Mathematica (4th and 5th Editions) by Stephen Wolfram - Fadedambition
A New Kind of Science by Stephen Wolfram - Fadedambition
The Equation that Couldn't be Solved: How Mathematical Genius Discovered the Language of Symmetry by Mario Livio - Connie
In Code: A Mathematical Journey by Sarah Flannery and David Flannery - Connie
The Big Bang by Simon Singh - Shiva
A Tour of Calculus by David Berlinski - Omphale23
Chaos and Harmony by Trinh Xuan Thuan - Omphale23
Patterns in the Sand by Bossomaier and Green - Omphale23
The Hidden Connections by Fritjof Capra - Omphale23
Beyond Einstein by Michio Kaku - Woog
Mathematics: A Very Short Introduction by Timothy Gowers - Woog
Quantum Theory: A Very Short Introduction by John Polkinghorne - Woog
Geomerty, Relativity and the Fourth Dimension by Rudolf B. Rucker - Woog



Also Recommended:
The Curious Incident of the Dog In Night Time by Mark Haddon (math and psychological puzzels throughout the book) - Cornish Pixie
Digital Fortress by Dan Brown (some math and cryptography) - mathfan9
The DaVinci Code by Dan Brown (Why not? It's pretty interesting!) - Alamo Girl
Deception Point by Dan Brown - Brainysmurf00 and Gila
Blink by Ted Dekker (about a mathematician) - Slippy
Awakening Your Child's Natural Genius by Thomas Armstrong - Wildfyre
Gifted Grownups: The Mixed Blessing of Extraordinary Potential by Marylou KellyStreznewski - thirty3d
Picasso at the Lapin Agile by Steve Martin - penguingal
Gifted Children: Myths and Realities by Ellen Winner - Alamo Girl
When Gifted Kids Don"t Have All the Answers: How to Meet Their Social and Emotional Needs by Jim Delisle - Alamo Girl
The Prodigy/ A Biography of William Sidis, America's Greatest Child Prodigy by Amy Wallace - Alamo Girl
You're Gonna Miss The Prom: A True Life Account and Guide Book for Gifted Kids by Laura Betancourt - Alamo Girl
Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimentions by Edwin A Abbott - Brainysmurf00
Flatterland: Like Flatland, Only More So by Ian Stewart - Brainysmurf00
Sphereland by Dionys Burger - Brainysmurf00
On the Nature of Human Romantic Interaction by Karl Iagnemma - Brainysmurf00
Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson - mathfan9
Portrait of a Killer: Jack the Ripper (http:///#) - Case Closed by Patricia Cornwell - Jprante
Echoes of Lies, True Witness, Reflections, The Debths of Solitude, Breaking Faith by Jo Bannister - Bunty (one of the main characters is a former mathematician)
The Rule of Four by Ian Caldwell - Icebox (Seems to be along the same lines of the DaVinci Code)
The Pythagorean Solution by Joesph Badal - mathfan9 (Academic Adventure)
Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers by Mary Roach - LetterstoElise
The Myth of Ability by John Mighton - Woog


Math/Science Related Plays and Movies
"What the Bleep Do We Know" - DVD
"QED: A Play" - Play - by Peter Parnell (About Richard Feynman) - Brainysmurf00
"Copenhagen" - Play -by Michael Frayne (About Niels Bohr and Werner discussing the atomic bomb) - Brainysmurf00
"Proof" - Play - by David Auburn (A study of mathematical genius/intelligence in realtion to mental illness.) - Michole
"Arcadia" - Play - by Tom Stoppard (Play merges science with human concerns and ideas. Thermodynamics and chaos are also explored.) - Michole
"The Physicists" - Play - by Friedrich Durrenmatt (About a genius who reseots to extreme measures to protect mankind from his dangerous discovery. Set in a mental asylum) - kate
"Pi" - Movie - Brainysmurf00
"IQ" - Movie - Brainysmurf00
"Infinity" - Movie (http:///#) about Richard Feynman starting Matthew Broderick (http:///#) and Patricia Arquette - Brainysmurf00 and Gila

Resource Websites
Math to Fiction http://math.cofc.edu/faculty/kasman/MATHFICT/mfview.php?callnumber=mf457 - SwimmerBas A wonderful resource for math books, plays and movie (http:///#) titles. Click on link and go to main index.
The Farm Hall Transcripts - Real transcripts of what German scientists being held in England said after the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima http://www.aip.prg/history/heisenberg/p11a.htm - Brainysmurf00
Math in Numb3rs Blog http://www.astweb.neu.edu/math/cp/blog
- a great website also recommended by mkword! - blogmeisermark
Richard Feynman's Letters published by The Guardian (http:///#) (British Newspaper)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1481368,00.html
-Brainysmurf00

[mathfan9]

I didn't realize that Cheryl has also recommended The Man Who Loved Only Numbers. Wow, I loved that book! Dr. Erdos was more obsessive than Charlie about math.

Another one that I would like to read but haven't yet is the book version of "A Beautiful Mind". They say the book has more detail than the movie.

[antineutrino]

I'd recommend "Alpha and Omega" by Charles Seife. I'm only about halfway through it, but it's got great stuff explaining what we know of how the universe began. I especially like his explanations of the different particles. At last I understand quarks, gluons, neutrinos, and of course (glances at username) antineutrinos. Or at least I have a better understanding and a newfound love for them. :) Charles Seife is just a good writer in general and if you like math history, I would DEFINITELY recommend his book Zero. It follows the number zero through history and, since zero pops up in infinite places (hehe), it covers a lot of other subjects along the way.

[Lisa]

Great idea! Are we all going to discuss one book at a time or is it a kind of free for all/share your opinion on any book kind of thing?

[LeWombat]

Thanks for doing all the footwork prbabe. This is a great idea. When summer comes, and there are no new episodes, and we have picked every last scrap of flesh off season 1 and scattered the bones like vultures, we can read from the list and talk about the books. Then when season 2 starts we may even know what Charlie and Larry are talking about.

[prbabe]

Great idea! Are we all going to discuss one book at a time or is it a kind of free for all/share your opinion on any book kind of thing?

I kind of like the free for all/share opinion idea. I like to keep things loose.
:wink:

Edited to say: The loose format could always change, I'll leave that up to you guys.

[mathfan9]

Charles Seife is just a good writer in general and if you like math history, I would DEFINITELY recommend his book Zero. It follows the number zero through history...

There's another book about zero called The Nothing that Is. One of those books was much more entertaining than the other, but now I can't remember which one was better. I think maybe it was Zero.

[mathlover18]

I was wondering if anyone knew about an author named John Tabak, he has many math books out there, but i've yet to get ahold of them. Some of them include Algebra, Geometry, Mathematics and the laws of Nature, Numbers and Probability and Statistics.

If anyone has read them and verify them as being good I woulndt mind reading them. They all seem intresting, but I can only get a general idea since I our 'variety' of math books at B & N isnt well, much of a variety..

[mathfan9]

I was wondering if anyone knew about an author named John Tabak, he has many math books out there, but i've yet to get ahold of them. Some of them include Algebra, Geometry, Mathematics and the laws of Nature, Numbers and Probability and Statistics.

If anyone has read them and verify them as being good I woulndt mind reading them. They all seem intresting, but I can only get a general idea since I our 'variety' of math books at B & N isnt well, much of a variety..

I think no one has read them because these are relatively new books. I googled them and the publication date is listed as May 1, 2004, so that would mean that they are not even a year old. They look very interesting. It looks like the author tackled the history of mathematics by subject matter rather than by date.

[mathlover18]

Heh, duh, GOOGLE, normally thats the first thing I do, thanks for doing that step for me, lol I'm going to see what I can find by him that is around here locally.

[prbabe]

There's another book about zero called The Nothing that Is. One of those books was much more entertaining than the other, but now I can't remember which one was better. I think maybe it was Zero.

I went on Amazon.com and found a book called The Nothing That Is: A Natural History of Zero by Robert Kaplan and Ellen Kaplan. Is this the book? I added it to the list.

[mathfan9]

I went on Amazon.com and found a book called The Nothing That Is: A Natural History of Zero by Robert Kaplan and Ellen Kaplan. Is this the book? I added it to the list.

Yes, that's it. I still have that book, but, sadly, I have lost Zero. At the beginning, when I was letting students check out all my books for extra credit, one of them borrowed it and never returned it. Now I keep the books I really like at home and let them borrow the boring ones like The Geometry of Art and Life. That one has a nice title, but is actually hideously boring!

[BeckyS]

At this point, I don't have any titles to recommend (I'll look into it, though), but I'd like to let folks know that if they can't find a book in a bookstore (or don't want to spend the money on it), check your public library.

And if your local public library doesn't have it -- they can borrow it from another library for you! Ask for the InterLibrary Loan service. This is an international program, btw, though most loan requests go to libraries that are geographically close.

Becky, the Librarian

[mkword]

Couple of really fun books ...

1089 and All That: A Journey Into Mathematics
-David Acheson

Strange Curves, Counting Rabbits, and other Mathematical Explorations

-Keith Ball

[deb]

So, I thought to myself, why not start a book thread so that we can talk about Numb3rs related books? I went through previous threads and gathered recommendations from fellow posters (see list below). I figured that it would be good to create a thread so that this information could be found with ease.

Great thread, prbabe! I was thinking that we should have a book list, to put all the books everyone came up with in one convenient place, and then, there you were!

And if your local public library doesn't have it -- they can borrow it from another library for you! Ask for the InterLibrary Loan service.

I'm going to have to do that to get the two R. Feynman books that CHeuton recommended: Genius and Lost Lecture. My library has a few Feynman books, but not those. While I'm at it, I'm going to request a copy of What the Bleep Do We Know? My local library doesn't have it. I rented it recently from Blockbuster, but I wanted to see it again.

[mathlover18]

Thanks for the info! The closest library to me is really short on non-fic books. Which bites because I only like very few fiction books. Our downtown library has a better selection, so i'll check down there and if still nothing I'll see what they can do to find some bopoks. We have like 5 or maybe 6 libraries around here I think, so hopfully something will come up.

[prbabe]

When summer comes, and there are no new episodes, and we have picked every last scrap of flesh off season 1 and scattered the bones like vultures, we can read from the list and talk about the books. Then when season 2 starts we may even know what Charlie and Larry are talking about.

Exactly LeWombat! We all love Numb3rs, but just imagine how much more our appreciation will deepen if we can relate to some of the concepts explored on the series.

Thanks for the recommendations mkword. I've added them to our list.

...I'd like to let folks know that if they can't find a book in a bookstore (or don't want to spend the money on it), check your public library. And if your local public library doesn't have it -- they can borrow it from another library for you! Ask for the InterLibrary Loan service...

Very important point BeckyS! Someone could go bankrupt trying to buy all of these great books.

Well, I have a question -
Right now I am reading Five Equations That Changed the World: The Power and Poetry of Mathematics by Michael Guillen. I'm up to the third equation and I'm having a pretty easy time (I think) understanding the concepts behind the equations that I have read.
However, I would like try out those equations with actual numbers - just to see if I can follow the math. Can someone recommed a workbook or somewhere online that I can find some problems involving Daniel Bernoulli's hydrodynamic equation and Newton's Universal Law of Gravity?
Is it even possible to solve these problems or are they more or less, just concepts?
Please excuse my ignorance, I'm now getting back to this stuff.

[Grace480]

... but, sadly, I have lost Zero.
This just struck me funny. I can imagine Larry saying "Well then mathfan9, you could state that you've actually lost nothing". And can you imagine Charlie trying to work with zero missing! He'd be a wreck!:wink:

I apologize for being silly in a serious thread and I hope no one is annoyed. If it makes any difference I printed out the list of suggested books to go check out online or at the bookstore. :)

[prbabe]

I apologize for being silly in a serious thread and I hope no one is annoyed. If it makes any difference I printed out the list of suggested books to go check out online or at the bookstore. :)

Don't let the Masterpiece Theatre background music fool you. There BETTER BE SILLINESS in this thread - it would be rather boring otherwise. In fact, I'm going to be silly right now.....
*doing silly things at the office*
:lol:

[Grace480]

I apologize for being silly in a serious thread and I hope no one is annoyed. If it makes any difference I printed out the list of suggested books to go check out online or at the bookstore. :)

Don't let the Masterpiece Theatre background music fool you. :lol:

Thanks, I think the music intimidated me. I'm more use to working with circus music in the background. :D

[Infinity]

im going to recomend "The Elegant Universe" by Brian Greene, even though, sadly, i have only read a small bit of it. I did see the Nova TV series about it, and it was awesome! and the book i think is a little more in detail about string theory. Brian Greene seems to be one of the best sources for string theory, and John Hagelin is also pretty smart when it comes to that stuff, though he doesnt have a book about string theory.

[prbabe]

Thanks Infinity!
:)

[anil099]

i dunno if its "math" related directly or if someone has already mentioned this but stephen hawking has a nice book which im sure everyone has heard of "a brief history of time" its mostly astro physics but it has a few chapters here and there...for example it has stuff bout the uncertainty principle and some history....

[prbabe]

i dunno if its "math" related directly or if someone has already mentioned this but stephen hawking has a nice book which im sure everyone has heard of "a brief history of time" its mostly astro physics but it has a few chapters here and there...for example it has stuff bout the uncertainty principle and some history....

Hi anil099! Ah, yes, "A Brief Histroy of Time." Absolutely should be added to the list. I'm trying to work my way up to reading that because I heard that it is pretty hard. That book, and Road to Reality: A Complete Guide to the Laws of the Universe by Roger Penrose, which I heard is tough too. Right now I'm trying to get as must background info as I can before I even attempt those two books - but I will!
:wink:

[anil099]

yea im a huge hawking fan...but im not at that level ive read a brief history of time a few times each time understanding more and more i understand most of it after reading it two or three times...lol ive also read a lot of isaac isamov...dunno if i spelled that rite ...and another physics author i cant recall his name..i go to a small high school in the south so not many astro physics books here lolz....ne one have ne other suggestions on astro physics books? or authors...sorry if its off topic kinda new here

[deb]

i dunno if its "math" related directly or if someone has already mentioned this but stephen hawking has a nice book which im sure everyone has heard of "a brief history of time" its mostly astro physics but it has a few chapters here and there...for example it has stuff bout the uncertainty principle and some history....

"A Brief History of Time" is a great book to add to the list. It has "why is it that we remember the past and not the future?" in it (a comment from Larry in the pilot). (A bit of trivia: in "Addam's Family Values" when Peter M.'s character put Joel in the Harmony Hut for wanting to read instead of making a birdhouse, this is the book Joel was clutching.)

im going to recomend "The Elegant Universe" by Brian Greene, even though, sadly, i have only read a small bit of it. I did see the Nova TV series about it, and it was awesome!

I was wondering when/if Brian Greene would come up. PBS ran the Nova series again recently. I saw a part of it and it was very helpful. (I need visual aids!) He also wrote "The Fabric of the Cosmos."

[Lisa]

i dunno if its "math" related directly or if someone has already mentioned this but stephen hawking has a nice book which im sure everyone has heard of "a brief history of time" its mostly astro physics but it has a few chapters here and there...for example it has stuff bout the uncertainty principle and some history....

I have that book! *squeeels*

I'm just proud that I bought a book relevant to mathematics and physics before I started watching Numb3rs. I'm not so hopeless after all.

Now ask me if I understood it all.

[anil099]

yea i rememeber larry sayin it in the pilot i was wondering if he meant it as a quote from hawking or just a quote from himself

[mathfan9]

Well, I have a question -
Right now I am reading Five Equations That Changed the World: The Power and Poetry of Mathematics by Michael Guillen. I'm up to the third equation and I'm having a pretty easy time (I think) understanding the concepts behind the equations that I have read.
However, I would like try out those equations with actual numbers - just to see if I can follow the math. Can someone recommed a workbook or somewhere online that I can find some problems involving Daniel Bernoulli's hydrodynamic equation and Newton's Universal Law of Gravity?
Is it even possible to solve these problems or are they more or less, just concepts?
Well, I don't have a workbook, but I have some of my old engineering textbooks. In one called Transfer Operations, they derive the Bernoulli equation by doing a mechanical energy balance and saying that in the absence of friction and shaft work this is called the Bernoulli equation. Then they give an example involving mechanical energy and pole vaulting. They are trying to figure out how fast a man would have to run in order to pole-vault 17 ft high if he could not supply any energy other than his kinetic energy. They make a bunch of assumptions and come up with 100 yards in 9.3 seconds. So it is possible to solve problems using Bernoulli's equation. Newton's Law of Gravity equation is similar; you can find the force between objects if you know their mass, etc.

[prbabe]

Well, I don't have a workbook, but I have some of my old engineering textbooks. In one called Transfer Operations, they derive the Bernoulli equation by doing a mechanical energy balance and saying that in the absence of friction and shaft work this is called the Bernoulli equation. Then they give an example involving mechanical energy and pole vaulting. They are trying to figure out how fast a man would have to run in order to pole-vault 17 ft high if he could not supply any energy other than his kinetic energy. They make a bunch of assumptions and come up with 100 yards in 9.3 seconds. So it is possible to solve problems using Bernoulli's equation. Newton's Law of Gravity equation is similar; you can find the force between objects if you know their mass, etc.

I can't thank you enough mathfan9! I'm really enjoying the book. I should be finished with it soon and I already bought my next one, The Golden Ratio by Mario Livio. Any thoughts on that book?

[mathfan9]

I can't thank you enough mathfan9! I'm really enjoying the book. I should be finished with it soon and I already bought my next one, The Golden Ratio by Mario Livio. Any thoughts on that book?

I haven't read that one. I think it was Infinity who recommended it. Anything about the Golden Ratio should be pretty interesting, though.

[Infinity]

wow...the connections are crazy!!! i read brief history of time a while ago, and i am at this moment listening to the first chapter on book tape becaue i am co-facilitating a 10th grade seminar on it at school (im a senior). i then stumbled upon the new posts on this thread about it and it was cool! anyway, ill shut up and recommend "the universe in a nutshell" also by stephen hawking. its a good refrence book about relativity, quantum physics, string theory, and other major sciences. expensive, but very good.

[prbabe]

Thanks Infinity! I heard that you have read The Golden Ratio - which I am about to start sometime later this week. Any thoughts on the book?

And now for some silliness - oh single ladies! Want to meet some cute, smart guys? Start reading Numb3rs related books. I had quite the conversation with a distinguished gentleman on the train this morning who noticed that I was reading a book about math.
:wink:

[Lisa]

And now for some silliness - oh single ladies! Want to meet some cute, smart guys? Start reading Numb3rs related books. I had quite the conversation with a distinguished gentleman on the train this morning who noticed that I was reading a book about math.
:wink:

*runs to the bookstore*


wait, the only men on my train cough really loudly while scratching themselves...

[prbabe]

And now for some silliness - oh single ladies! Want to meet some cute, smart guys? Start reading Numb3rs related books. I had quite the conversation with a distinguished gentleman on the train this morning who noticed that I was reading a book about math.
:wink:

*runs to the bookstore*


wait, the only men on my train cough really loudly while scratching themselves...

Come to NYC Lisa, where cute guys actually ride trains!
Check out the math/science section of your local bookstore/library if the guys on your train are too scary - I've made a few new friends there myself.
8)

[prbabe]

There have been some new additions to the book list on page 1.
Thanks and keep the suggestions coming!
:)

[Alamo Girl]

Hmmm.. The Golden Ratio sounds very interesting...even to a non-math-head like me.

Does anyone know of any books that can relate math and statistics into Human psychology/socialology? Like that TLC channel sieres on Human Social/Sexual studies...relating thing sthat make us tick...to math and probability? (don't know if anyone knows what I'm talking about...Mel has trouble typing thoughts coherently) :wink:

Oh and I'm diving into The DaVinci Code, I don't know if this has been covered here...but this book has a Numb3rs-stye myster plastered all over it! I know it would be too complicated to transfer into a Numb3rs episode...but dang! Charlie would have a field-day with some of the patterns Brown brings up!

And yes, it is a wonderful fiction mystery...a great story...and I've seen all the shows de-bunking his theories. I think some of those historians (and I'm a historian so this book apeals to me that way too) can't just enjoy the book for what it is...a fiction tale melding a little history, folklore, science and a LOT of creative ideas! *grin*

[mathfan9]

Oh and I'm diving into The DaVinci Code, I don't know if this has been covered here...but this book has a Numb3rs-stye myster plastered all over it!

I haven't read that one, but I read Digital Fortress by the same author. It has some math & cryptography in it (as well as a little romance) and I enjoyed it.

[Cornish Pixie]

Well I haven't read many books with math as the main focus, but I do think I have one to add to the list: The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time, by Mark Haddon. It's written from the point of view of a fifteen year old autistic boy who wants to solve the mystery of who killed his neighbor's dog. There are math problems and psychological puzzles scattered throughout, because that's the way Christopher's mind works. I found it very interesting. My favorite tid-bit: Christopher chooses to number the chapters of his book only in prime numbers, because those are his favorite ones :) So instead of opening the book and seeing chapters one, two and three, you see chapters two, three, five, seven...

[prbabe]

Thanks for all the new suggestions. I listed the books that might not quite be Numb3rs related under "Also Recommended" - since they are also worth reading.

I personally loved the DaVinci Code. I was so consumed by it that I finished it in one day. I got up in the middle of the night because I couldn't wait to see how it ended. I know that they are filming a movie with Tom Hanks in the lead - I hope they do right by the book.

I am about to start reading The Golden Ratio and I am very excited since it relates to Charlie's speech at the end of Sabotage.

[Alamo Girl]

Thanks for all the new suggestions. I listed the books that might not quite be Numb3rs related under "Also Recommended" - since they are also worth reading.

I personally loved the DaVinci Code. I was so consumed by it that I finished it in one day. I got up in the middle of the night because I couldn't wait to see how it ended. I know that they are filming a movie with Tom Hanks in the lead - I hope they do right by the book.


Ah yes! I wonder if Hanks can pull off a convincing Langdon, though. He's never stuck me as the adventure actor, and Langdon seems to be a cool, intuitive and sharp character...with a little danger in him. Hanks' face is just to congenial for that...but he is a consumate actor...and pulling off characters people may not be able to see you as, would be the main challenge of acting. *grin*

It absolutly amazing to me the sheer intellect and cunning of DaVinci! I'd imagine (not that we'd ever see anything like it in the show) that finding the patterns in DaVinci's work out give Charlie a good time. Even if he was disproving them...*snerk*

[prbabe]

I'd imagine (not that we'd ever see anything like it in the show) that finding the patterns in DaVinci's work out give Charlie a good time. Even if he was disproving them...*snerk*

I would love to see a storyline like that on Numb3rs! I guess we got a little taste of it on "Counterfeit Reality" but how exciting would something like that be? I have an interest in art history as well so I'm all for plots that combine math and art. That's another reason why I am excited to start The Golden Ratio. Apparently, the golden ratio shows up in Leonardo da Vinci's "Mona Lisa" and Salvador Dali's "Sacrament of the Last Supper" - that's what it says on the back of the book.

[Alamo Girl]

I think weaving in some kind of DaVinci-type coding into a Fed case, and letting Charlie ferret out the patterns would be awesome to see! But like you said, we kinda saw some of that in "Counterfeit Reality".

If it could be woven into a bigger case, more sprawling and complex...going up into conspiratory links high in the FBI food chain...or even into other high govt. agencies...*ooooo*
Can't you just "see" Charlie getting completely enthralled into that puzzle...wtih Don caught between wanting to find the truth (oh jeeze, Mulder-paralell), and being caught by his duties!

*Mel wipes 'plot idea' drool from mouth...* That would have to be a two-part story arch or something, I guess.

I really need to find a book on equation and statistics in Human behavioral studies, psychological/sociological...like the "Tipping Point" ripple effect and influenced behavior from "Sniper Zero".

Any ideas anyone? Nick? Cheryl?

[thirty3d]

This is pretty off-topic, aside from the fact that this is the NUMB3RS book thread, but...

I would love to see a subplot in a future episode depicting Charlie working with an editor on a book or article. We already know he can't spell. I'd bet money he can't write worth a darn, either.

In my work as a technical editor, I deal with scientists, engineers, programmers, logisticians, all sorts of people, and some of the technical types barely qualify as literate, at least from the standpoint of writing well. I could totally see an exasperated editor dealing with Charlie and saying....

"Charlie, that isn't a complete sentence."

"Charlie, that isn't an intransitive verb."

"Charlie, we don't use an apostrophe when we make a noun plural.'"

"Charlie, you've completely misused that idiomatic expression."

"Charlie, that word doesn't mean what you think it does."

"Charlie, are you sure English is your native language?"

All of the above examples (except the last one, which would be insulting) are things I have actually said to people...including people with advanced degrees, even doctorates.

[Alamo Girl]

Thats hilarious Thirty3d!

Actually, I'd be willing to bet money that any math articles, with any kind of language or flow in them...would be written by someone else. Amita maybe.

I don't see Charlie being able to get his conglomerate of thoughts out on paper in any readable form.

"No, no Charlie..we don't write a paragraph using 5 different tenses...pick one. And no, they don't average out to mean the same thing..."

*snerk*

[thirty3d]

...I'd be willing to bet money that any math articles, with any kind of language or flow in them...would be written by someone else. Amita maybe. I don't see Charlie being able to get his conglomerate of thoughts out on paper in any readable form.
That's very possible. Bibliographies frequently list several authors of scientific articles and books. Chances are the principal scientist didn't do the actual writing, he/she provided the data to an underling and let him/her handle it.

Still, it would make for a fairly humorous scene around the Eppes' dining room table.

[prbabe]

I really need to find a book on equation and statistics in Human behavioral studies, psychological/sociological...like the "Tipping Point" ripple effect and influenced behavior from "Sniper Zero".

Any ideas anyone? Nick? Cheryl?

nmbs recommended the book Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference by Malcolm Gladwell. You can purchase it from Amazon.com.

...I'd be willing to bet money that any math articles, with any kind of language or flow in them...would be written by someone else. Amita maybe. I don't see Charlie being able to get his conglomerate of thoughts out on paper in any readable form.
That's very possible. Bibliographies frequently list several authors of scientific articles and books. Chances are the principal scientist didn't do the actual writing, he/she provided the data to an underling and let him/her handle it.

Still, it would make for a fairly humorous scene around the Eppes' dining room table.

That would be funny. I wonder if Charlie has authored any books????
:shock:

[thirty3d]

That would be funny. I wonder if Charlie has authored any books????
Given his stature in the math community and given that we know he's written articles, I would be surprised if he hadn't written books.

[Lisa]

That would be funny. I wonder if Charlie has authored any books????
Given his stature in the math community and given that we know he's written articles, I would be surprised if he hadn't written books.

Too bad he's not real - I'd totally buy his books.

[divia]

I haven't posted in this thread because I just feel too out-of-the-loop. I'm not innumerate; I'm about to get my accounting degree. But, the advanced stuff is a little past me. I took pre-calculous and got an A in high school. I'm capable of learning it and understanding it and I would like to, but it's going to have to wait till the end of the semster at least. However, I want to learn so I did find the math section at B&N. After trying really hard to underdstand the equations and calculations behind PvNP (no luck), I picked up these three books:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0393320928/qid=1114021573/sr=2-4/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_4/002-3548675-6387227

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0738206369/qid=1114021573/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/002-3548675-6387227

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0393316041/qid=1114021573/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-3548675-6387227

They're quite readable even to a simpleton like myself. A lot of it wasn't really about math or physics-- they were Feynman's observations. He knew how to tell a story and get people interested. If it had been in my budget, I'd have bought one. You guys probably already know about these, but I wanted to give them a shout out.

[leaptad]

That would be funny. I wonder if Charlie has authored any books????
Given his stature in the math community and given that we know he's written articles, I would be surprised if he hadn't written books.

Too bad he's not real - I'd totally buy his books.

Hopefully he's not the type of prof to make all his students by his book, and then never reference it all semester. I can't tell you how many times that happened to me in college. Made me beyond livid.

[Alamo Girl]

God knows how many thousands of my dollars went to buying the "Professor's Book"...usually the highest priced bad-boy in the campus bookstore!

Such a racket!

[Slippy]

I highly reccomend the book "Blink" By Ted DeKker. It's about a math genuis(and I swear I had a picture of Charlie in my head the whole time) who is young and goes to college but he finds out he can see in to the future and then he suddenly is on the run with this princess from Saudi Arabia. It's not a cheesy as it sounds. It's very good!

[prbabe]

I haven't posted in this thread because I just feel too out-of-the-loop. I'm not innumerate; I'm about to get my accounting degree. But, the advanced stuff is a little past me. I took pre-calculous and got an A in high school. I'm capable of learning it and understanding it and I would like to, but it's going to have to wait till the end of the semster at least. However, I want to learn so I did find the math section at B&N. After trying really hard to underdstand the equations and calculations behind PvNP (no luck), I picked up these three books:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0393320928/qid=1114021573/sr=2-4/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_4/002-3548675-6387227

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0738206369/qid=1114021573/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/002-3548675-6387227

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0393316041/qid=1114021573/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-3548675-6387227

They're quite readable even to a simpleton like myself. A lot of it wasn't really about math or physics-- they were Feynman's observations. He knew how to tell a story and get people interested. If it had been in my budget, I'd have bought one. You guys probably already know about these, but I wanted to give them a shout out.

Divia!!!! Thank you so much for the suggestions and I added them to the list on page 1.

Do not worry about feeling out-of-the-loop! The purpose of this thread is to share information and knowledge so that we ALL learn something, no matter what your level of math or science. I'm a simpleton too. I only got as far a pre-cal in high school. However, I want to learn more so I'm trying to work my way though some of the books suggested in this thread. I hope to get to your suggestions as well.
:)

[Lisa]

That would be funny. I wonder if Charlie has authored any books????
Given his stature in the math community and given that we know he's written articles, I would be surprised if he hadn't written books.

Too bad he's not real - I'd totally buy his books.

Hopefully he's not the type of prof to make all his students by his book, and then never reference it all semester. I can't tell you how many times that happened to me in college. Made me beyond livid.

Yes, I, too, have books from the professor that I haven't touched, nor needed to for the class.

Thankfully, in law school, if you buy the professor's book it's usually the actual textbook.

On a related note: In my Archaeology, Relics & The Law class we were assigned a case about Native American bones held in museums (well, more than one case, but I'm talking about one of the cases we were assigned). I opened the textbook (which my professor wrote) and turned out my Dad wrote the opinion. Weird.

[prbabe]

I highly reccomend the book "Blink" By Ted DeKker. It's about a math genuis(and I swear I had a picture of Charlie in my head the whole time) who is young and goes to college but he finds out he can see in to the future and then he suddenly is on the run with this princess from Saudi Arabia. It's not a cheesy as it sounds. It's very good!

Yeah Slippy! How is the little one? I hope that all is well.
:D
That book sounds interesting. Added to the "Also Recommended" list.

[prbabe]

On a related note: In my Archaeology, Relics & The Law class we were assigned a case about Native American bones held in museums (well, more than one case, but I'm talking about one of the cases we were assigned). I opened the textbook (which my professor wrote) and turned out my Dad wrote the opinion. Weird.

That would freak me out.
:shock:
Something similar happened to a friend of mine.

[marie_delucy]

A book I read in college and found really interesting:

"How Real is Real?" by Paul Watzlawick. It's "An Anecdotal Introduction to Communications Theory."

Among many other topics, it deals with the Prisoner's Dilemma and effective/non-effective threats.

[prbabe]

A book I read in college and found really interesting:

"How Real is Real?" by Paul Watzlawick. It's "An Anecdotal Introduction to Communications Theory."

Among many other topics, it deals with the Prisoner's Dilemma and effective/non-effective threats.

Sounds good to me! I'm adding it to the list of books on page one.

So, is anyone reading anything interesting? Lets talk....
:)

[wildfyre]

While it's not a math type book, I'm reading 'In Their Own Way' by Thomas Armstrong, Ph.D. It's about figuring out the best way for your child to learn and get the most from the school system, whether your child is gifted or challenged in some way.

[prbabe]

While it's not a math type book, I'm reading 'In Their Own Way' by Thomas Armstrong, Ph.D. It's about figuring out the best way for your child to learn and get the most from the school system, whether your child is gifted or challenged in some way.

Although not math, I think that it is very related to Numb3rs. It must be very hard for parents to navagate the school system if you have a special needs child - either gifted or challenged. If I had children, I would not begin to know how to get them the proper instruction. This book could probably give you insight on what it would have been like for Charlie as a child.

I'm adding it to the Also Recommended list. Does it say anything interesting about gifted children?

[Alamo Girl]

Nature's Gambit: Child Prodigies and the Development of Human Potential (Education and Psychology of the Gifted Series)
by David Henry Feldman, Lynn T. Goldsmith

This is an extremely interesting book I checked out about understanding the mind and development of child prodigies. It can be found on Amazon.com.

It also give statistics of child prodigies functioning in society, how they cope, and about their families coping.

A little insight into Charlie's life perhaps?

I recommend this book for those wanting to know more about prodigies.

[Alamo Girl]

OHMY GOD! DaVinci Code is such a good mystery! The set-up is absolutly enthralling, the language and flow is paced enough to keep the tension going!

And I already like Langdon...especially what he said about the symbology of the Eiffle tower in France! *evil grin*
I think Langdon and Charlie might get along...or he and Larry...*grin*

Sorry for the outburst...continue with your regularly scheduled program... :wink:

[marisa2025]

Does anybody know if there is a good book by William of Ockham that explains his methodology of coming up with his rule?

Don mentioned Ockham's Razor in "Structural Corruption", right?

[Alamo Girl]

Does anybody know if there is a good book by William of Ockham that explains his methodology of coming up with his rule?

Don mentioned Ockham's Razor in "Structural Corruption", right?

There are some papers on it that I found on Amazon, though the books are out of print, you might find them elsewhere.

Ockham's razor: A historical and philosophical analysis of Ockham's principle of parsimony by Roger Ariew

This was actually still in print:
Ockham's Theory of Terms: Part I of the Summa Logicae (Hardcover)
by William of Ockham, Michael J. Loux (Translator)

The Philosophy of William of Ockham: In the Light of Its Principles (Studies and Texts. (Pontifical Inst of Mediaeval Stds), No 133) (Hardcover)
by Armand Maurer

Hope this helps!

[Brainysmurf00]

I have a couple of suggestions - mostly physics books.

Two excellent plays, or fast-reads:

1) "QED: a Play" by Peter Parnell. It's about Feynman.
2) "Copenhagen" by Michael Frayne. It's about a conversation between Niels Bohr and Werner Heisenberg about whether or not the atomic bomb can/should be built.

Other books:

1) "The First Three Minutes" by Steven Weinberg. More astrophysics.
2) "The Code Book" by Simon Singh. I've never read it, but my father recommends it.

I'm also a big fan of Descartes' "Meditations." Fun stuff about the nature of reality.

Oh, and for a cute movie involving goofy physicists, check out "IQ" starring Meg Ryan and Tim Robbins.
For a not so cute movie, you may want to check out "Pi"


Story about the play QED:

They did a rendition of it at my university and I went to see it. Afterwords they had a panel discussion with some of Feynman's friends, including Marvin Minsky - the father of Artificial Intelligence, and Ralph Leighton - who helped Feynman write many of his books. I got to meet Leighton and he was an extremely nice and cool guy. Also, they gave everyone free ice cream. It was a new flavor inspired by Feynman. See, the title of one of his books "Surely you're Joking, Mr. Feynman" comes from an anecdote, where Feynman was having tea with faculty at Princeton. A server asked if he would like lemon or cream in his tea, and he said "um...both" and the server responded with "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman." So at this event, a local ice cream place made lemon-tea ice cream and gave some to everyone. It was really weird, but yummy. Ever since that event, Feynman has been one of my fav physicists.

[Azukichan]

OHMY GOD! DaVinci Code is such a good mystery! The set-up is absolutly enthralling, the language and flow is paced enough to keep the tension going!

And I already like Langdon...especially what he said about the symbology of the Eiffle tower in France! *evil grin*
I think Langdon and Charlie might get along...or he and Larry...*grin*

Sorry for the outburst...continue with your regularly scheduled program... :wink:

Random: It bothers me that Langdon cannot read backwards. He can totally spout random factoids about the Eiffel Tower off the top of his head but give him a word written in mirror script and he's a moron.

In Angels and Demons... well, I won't give anything away, but it's slightly annoying. And while I enjoy Dan Brown, I always feel like my IQ has dropped after reading one of his books and I get an urge to go read something that was originally written in Russian.

I am blabbing I know. But I've been studying all day and I still have not watched Numb3rs because my dad is not home and I'm getting antsy.

PS Read Feynman's Rainbow. My mom keeps trying to get me to read it but I don't have the time to so you all can read it for me and tell me if it's any good.

[Brainysmurf00]

In Angels and Demons... well, I won't give anything away, but it's slightly annoying. And while I enjoy Dan Brown, I always feel like my IQ has dropped after reading one of his books and I get an urge to go read something that was originally written in Russian.

I am blabbing I know. But I've been studying all day and I still have not watched Numb3rs because my dad is not home and I'm getting antsy.

PS Read Feynman's Rainbow. My mom keeps trying to get me to read it but I don't have the time to so you all can read it for me and tell me if it's any good.


Is it the physics that bothers you, Azukichan, in Angels and Demons? Cuz that's what bothered the heck out of me. Also - I love Russian authors! Dostoevsky's my favorite.

[wildfyre]

While it's not a math type book, I'm reading 'In Their Own Way' by Thomas Armstrong, Ph.D. It's about figuring out the best way for your child to learn and get the most from the school system, whether your child is gifted or challenged in some way.

Although not math, I think that it is very related to Numb3rs. It must be very hard for parents to navagate the school system if you have a special needs child - either gifted or challenged. If I had children, I would not begin to know how to get them the proper instruction. This book could probably give you insight on what it would have been like for Charlie as a child.

I'm adding it to the Also Recommended list. Does it say anything interesting about gifted children?

Sorry prbabe, I wasn't ignoring you. I hardly come to this thread, so I didn't know you had responded.

The truth is I've had to start it 3 times already!! If I find anything interesting, I'll definitely let you know. :D

[Azukichan]

Is it the physics that bothers you, Azukichan, in Angels and Demons? Cuz that's what bothered the heck out of me. Also - I love Russian authors! Dostoevsky's my favorite.

Actually, I liked the matter v. antimatter/creation/physics issue in Angels and Demons. It bothered me the first time I read it because I didn't understand anything but the second time around it made more sense.

I was referring to the fact that Robert Langon cannot read backwards. Is this an uncommon trait (the ability to read mirror script)? I've always found it easy to read which comes in handy when you're doing those mystery puzzle things and don't have a mirror to read the solution (does anyone know what I'm talking about?) But then again I am a spacial learner.

However in Sacrifice (I finally got to watch it!), Don and Charlie are reading the Van Eck Phreak and it's reversed and they seem to have no problem. Of course, they are working from a script and who knows if Rob and David actually can read backwards.

[wildfyre]

While it's not a math type book, I'm reading 'In Their Own Way' by Thomas Armstrong, Ph.D. It's about figuring out the best way for your child to learn and get the most from the school system, whether your child is gifted or challenged in some way.

Although not math, I think that it is very related to Numb3rs. It must be very hard for parents to navagate the school system if you have a special needs child - either gifted or challenged. If I had children, I would not begin to know how to get them the proper instruction. This book could probably give you insight on what it would have been like for Charlie as a child.

I'm adding it to the Also Recommended list. Does it say anything interesting about gifted children?

The book says (and keep in mind that this was published in 1987 so thoughts may have changed) that all children are gifted, you just have to find the area in which they excel. There are seven types of intelligence: linguistic, logical-mathematical, spatial, musical, bodily-kinesthetic, interpersonal, and intrapersonal.

To use our beloved Charlie as an example (and please, someone correct my thinking if it's wrong) he excelled in the mathematical intelligence, which made him gifted in this area. If you were to focus on his arts/language, he would probably be found to be 'learning disabled'.

So, to my thinking, putting a 'learning disabled' label on a child is not appropriate, that it just has to be found the area which is 'their' specialty and focus on it. Not meaning to say that the other areas are a moot point, but to get them to keep an interest in school.

I am only now starting Chapter 2 (for the 4th time), but I am taking it slow, re-reading passages to make sure I understand. I have read previously about interesting IQ testing methods, and when I get there again I'll tell you about it. It will blow your mind! :shock:

There is another book by the same author that I will be looking for, and it's called "Awakening Your Child's Natural Genius".

[Alamo Girl]

OHMY GOD! DaVinci Code is such a good mystery! The set-up is absolutly enthralling, the language and flow is paced enough to keep the tension going!

And I already like Langdon...especially what he said about the symbology of the Eiffle tower in France! *evil grin*
I think Langdon and Charlie might get along...or he and Larry...*grin*

Sorry for the outburst...continue with your regularly scheduled program... :wink:

Random: It bothers me that Langdon cannot read backwards. He can totally spout random factoids about the Eiffel Tower off the top of his head but give him a word written in mirror script and he's a moron.


I get the impression that Langdon is a very intellectual man, knowig all kinds of obscure facts. But mirror script isn't something that usually taught at Harvard nowadays. *grin* Maybe Brown had to inject some fallacies into his character, so he wouldn't seem "all-knowing". He is a likable character, with a good sense of humor...and I can overlook his not being able to read mirror script, but knowing other symbology meanings.

No body's perfect...*giggle*

In Angels and Demons... well, I won't give anything away, but it's slightly annoying. And while I enjoy Dan Brown, I always feel like my IQ has dropped after reading one of his books and I get an urge to go read something that was originally written in Russian.

Oh I know how you feel, sometimes I feel like a complete dunce after watching Numb3rs...but Nick and Cheryl are wonderful enough to make the terminology and the equations break down into lay terms, so that us Math-dummies (that would be Alamo Girl *waves hand*) can understand their usefullness within the cases.

Criminal intent and human motives I understand. Work the case from the agent's POV, I understand. Complexe math equations and theories...I don't understand. *Giggle* Numb3rs helps me understand their connections. :D

I havn't read Angels and Demons yet, but I plan to after DaVinci Code. I just get cracked up at all the controversy sprouted after D. Code. Even though I'm a Historian--I just enjoy it for what it is...a damn good story and a damn good mystery. Brown is a wonderful storyteller. :wink:

[Azukichan]

I get the impression that Langdon is a very intellectual man, knowig all kinds of obscure facts. But mirror script isn't something that usually taught at Harvard nowadays. *grin* Maybe Brown had to inject some fallacies into his character, so he wouldn't seem "all-knowing". He is a likable character, with a good sense of humor...and I can overlook his not being able to read mirror script, but knowing other symbology meanings.

No body's perfect...*giggle*

Yeah, and he does teach symbology so he should know it really well. I just assumed that everyone could read mirror script ( I know, I know to assume makes an a** out of you and me)

Oh I know how you feel, sometimes I feel like a complete dunce after watching Numb3rs...but Nick and Cheryl are wonderful enough to make the terminology and the equations break down into lay terms, so that us Math-dummies (that would be Alamo Girl *waves hand*) can understand their usefullness within the cases.

I agree. I also like the real life applications that Charlie uses to explain his point (Minesweeper, folding paper (Britney Gallivan), running on the beach, blue houses etc.).

[prbabe]

Yeah, more suggestions! Thanks Alamo Girl, Brainysmurf00 (lemon tea ice cream sounds good to me), Azukichan, and Wildfyre. I will update the list. Keep the suggestions coming!
:D

[mathfan9]

All this talk in the other thread about Larry being a string theorist made me think of another book I've read and enjoyed (although I didn't understand it all) called Superstrings and the Search for Theory of Everything. It's by F. David Peat.

[mathlover18]

I've just skimmed through the past few pages and saw that some people mentioned The Golden Ratio. I've yet been able to purchase it, but i've been reading it at Barnes and Nobles whenever I'm there. Its *Really* good and quite intresting. I recently found another book called "The Number Devil" I believe it is. Its quite humerous. Its like a childrens book with more advanced math concepts. Its pictured and colored w/ cartoons and all! lol. It amused me.

[Alamo Girl]

I get the impression that Langdon is a very intellectual man, knowig all kinds of obscure facts. But mirror script isn't something that usually taught at Harvard nowadays. *grin* Maybe Brown had to inject some fallacies into his character, so he wouldn't seem "all-knowing". He is a likable character, with a good sense of humor...and I can overlook his not being able to read mirror script, but knowing other symbology meanings.

No body's perfect...*giggle*

Yeah, and he does teach symbology so he should know it really well. I just assumed that everyone could read mirror script ( I know, I know to assume makes an a** out of you and me)



HAHA.. thats funny Azukichan!! :lol:

Hey, I can't even spell half the time...I have more finger-fumble typos in my posts--it stands to reason it usually takes some research on my part so that I can better understand the math theories expressed in Numb3rs.

But thats what cool about this Book Thread, it narrows down my searching, and people give such wonderful suggestions and great books!

So I don't feel so completely stupid around the "Math" oriented people in this forum. I'm constantly amazed at how wonderful those that love math and have a good understanding of complex theories,... are to those of us who don't grasp it so well.

*smoochies to the Math Teachers/people in this forum* :D 8)

[eatmoechikin]

Hey! There's a book that I've read that's not math related, but it really reminded me of the episode "Sacrifice." It's called Inventing God by Nicholas Mosley and it's centered around the conflict in the Middle East somewhere around 2000-2001. There's several different characters and plots, but one of them has to do with a scientist who's been assigned to try and discover a genetic difference between people of certain races (Muslims, Jews, etc.) and they're trying to create a biological weapon that would possibly take out one race and not the other.

It's also mainly about the perceptions of reality and God, and how religion and race are effected. It's not really related to anything "Numb3rs"-like, I guess, but I remembered that one storyline really reminded me of "Sacrifice" for some reason. (I really don't know why....maybe you should just ignore my suggestion. :roll: )

[thirty3d]

Hey, I can't even spell half the time...I have more finger-fumble typos in my posts--it stands to reason it usually takes some research on my part so that I can better understand the math theories expressed in Numb3rs.
You're in good company, Alamo Girl. Charlie can't spell, either.

[Sara]

I am so excited! My books just came today - Genius and Feynman's Lost Lecture.
Now if only I could find the time to actually enjoy them...

[jhan05]

Hey! There's a book that I've read that's not math related, but it really reminded me of the episode "Sacrifice." It's called Inventing God by Nicholas Mosley and it's centered around the conflict in the Middle East somewhere around 2000-2001. There's several different characters and plots, but one of them has to do with a scientist who's been assigned to try and discover a genetic difference between people of certain races (Muslims, Jews, etc.) and they're trying to create a biological weapon that would possibly take out one race and not the other.

It's also mainly about the perceptions of reality and God, and how religion and race are effected. It's not really related to anything "Numb3rs"-like, I guess, but I remembered that one storyline really reminded me of "Sacrifice" for some reason. (I really don't know why....maybe you should just ignore my suggestion. :roll: )

Actually that sounds pretty interesting, eatmoechikin. It does kind of remind me of "Sacrifice" but it also reminds me of "Vector." Just the concept of trying to wipe people out by the masses.

[eatmoechikin]

Yea, that does seem to have shades of "Vector" in there. Hmm...

I will warn you though. If you are very sensitive about religion and the questioning (not the denial, mind you) of the existence of God, then you may not want to read it. I just wrote an essay on it for my Lit. class that deals with the "inventing" of God. (The title is taken from a quote by Voltaire that says "If God did not exist then man would have to create him." or something along those lines.) It's all about perception of reality.

Also, if you like a lot of description (which I personally do), then it may be hard to read. I was required to read it, and at first I wasn't too thrilled about it. I was however, intrigued my many of the ideas so I managed to get very interested in it.

[Azukichan]

Yea, that does seem to have shades of "Vector" in there. Hmm...

I will warn you though. If you are very sensitive about religion and the questioning (not the denial, mind you) of the existence of God, then you may not want to read it. I just wrote an essay on it for my Lit. class that deals with the "inventing" of God. (The title is taken from a quote by Voltaire that says "If God did not exist then man would have to create him." or something along those lines.) It's all about perception of reality.

Also, if you like a lot of description (which I personally do), then it may be hard to read. I was required to read it, and at first I wasn't too thrilled about it. I was however, intrigued my many of the ideas so I managed to get very interested in it.

This sounds incredibly interesting. The Voltaire quote reminds me of XTC's Dear God. "Did you make mankind after we made you?"

I so need to go to the bookstore.

[Alamo Girl]

Yea, that does seem to have shades of "Vector" in there. Hmm...

I will warn you though. If you are very sensitive about religion and the questioning (not the denial, mind you) of the existence of God, then you may not want to read it. I just wrote an essay on it for my Lit. class that deals with the "inventing" of God. (The title is taken from a quote by Voltaire that says "If God did not exist then man would have to create him." or something along those lines.) It's all about perception of reality.

Also, if you like a lot of description (which I personally do), then it may be hard to read. I was required to read it, and at first I wasn't too thrilled about it. I was however, intrigued my many of the ideas so I managed to get very interested in it.


Ooo...very interesting. I think I may have to check that book out! I'm personally not bothered by different views of science and God. Jeeze, I'm in the middle of DaVinci Code...talk about "different aspects of science and religion"(even if it is fiction...)! *smirk* :wink:

And I'm thoroughly enjoying myself reading it. :)

[lilavati]

Here are some of my favorite math books;

Fermat's Enigma by Simon Singh
Prime Obsession by John Derbyshire
Does God Play Dice by Ian Stewart

Also, for fiction, Dan Brown, of Davinci Code fame, does a pretty good job incorporating cryptography into his books. I particularly liked Digital Fortress.

[mathfan9]

Here are some of my favorite math books;

Fermat's Enigma by Simon Singh
Prime Obsession by John Derbyshire
Does God Play Dice by Ian Stewart

Also, for fiction, Dan Brown, of Davinci Code fame, does a pretty good job incorporating cryptography into his books. I particularly liked Digital Fortress.

I've read Does God Play Dice? and Digital Fortress. Both were great! What is Prime Obsession about? That sounds interesting.

[lilavati]

Prime Obsession is about the history of the Riemann Hypothesis, with some biographical info about Riemann. Derbyshire does a great job explaining advanced math to a layman while not 'dumbing it down'. I'm a third year math major and quite enjoyed it.

[Brainysmurf00]

For Feynman Fans ...

Some of Feynman's letters have been published in the British paper The Guardian. You can check them out here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1481368,00.html

His daughter Michelle collected them and edited them, and they include letters to strangers and other famous scientists.

The Letters include the topics:
On the Bomb
On Science
On the Nobel Prize
On Religion
On Science Writing (a letter to James Watson, discoverer of the structure of DNA)
On Teaching
On Loss (this is particularly heartbreaking)

[prbabe]

For Feynman Fans ...

Some of Feynman's letters have been published in the British paper The Guardian. You can check them out here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1481368,00.html

His daughter Michelle collected them and edited them, and they include letters to strangers and other famous scientists.

The Letters include the topics:
On the Bomb
On Science
On the Nobel Prize
On Religion
On Science Writing (a letter to James Watson, discoverer of the structure of DNA)
On Teaching
On Loss (this is particularly heartbreaking)

Thanks so much for the update Brainysmurf00. I will add this and all of the new suggestions to the list. I do apologize for being slow to update the list on page 1 - I've been crazy busy. I will update soon.
:wink:

[Brainysmurf00]

That's cool. The list is getting pretty comprehensive!

[thirty3d]

Here's another book on gifted people:

"Gifted Grownups: The Mixed Blessings of Extraordinary Potential" by Marylou Kelly Streznewski.

I've only skimmed over the book so far (it's a library book and more vacation reading), but it looks really interesting, especially since it's one of the rare books that addresses gifted adults, not children.

[Glia]

Loved DaVinci Code , Digital Fortess, and Angles and Demons by Dan Brown. What was the the title of the one set in the artic, with the metor(sp?) and NASA? :?

Didn't HBO do a movie about Fennman with Mathew Brodrick and Patricia Arquette? It was about his work in New Mexico? I just can't seem to get the name. :?

Really having trouble with that today. :wink:

Oh, Loved the Movie "IQ" it was so cute.

[nypam]

I have tried to read about famous mathematicians, and do very well until they get to the math part.

I have learned a few key concepts though:

For every one of them that published a significant discovery, there is another one who claims to have discovered it earlier, but didn't publish his findings. This often resulted in the gentlemanly exchange of formal letters stating: No you didn't Yes I did. No you didn't Yes I did. No you didn't Yes I did. into Infinity (which may or may not actually be infinite)

Most important of all--and this is from Pythagoras--if a mathematician offers you cruise tickets Do Not Accept them. No boating. It's the equivalent of "drinking the Koolaid"

Newton was beaten up alot. No wonder the apple fell on his head. He was a universal target.

Personally, It's a great comfort to have the Face of Mathematics be a man who had to take algebra 3 times TMEDK.

My copy of Algebra for Dummies A reference for the Rest of Us arrived in today's mail.

There is one for every branch of Math. I ordered all of them as a Mom's Day gift to myself.

You may be infinitely relieved to know I have no intention of reviewing them for the book club. :lol:

[Brainysmurf00]

Loved DaVinci Code , Digital Fortess, and Angles and Demons by Dan Brown. What was the the title of the one set in the artic, with the metor(sp?) and NASA? :?

Didn't HBO do a movie about Fennman with Mathew Brodrick and Patricia Arquette? It was about his work in New Mexico? I just can't seem to get the name. :?

Really having trouble with that today. :wink:

Oh, Loved the Movie "IQ" it was so cute.

Deception Point was Dan Brown's other book. And the movie you are talking about is called "Infinity" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116635/

[AMG]

Hi, all--

I recommend The Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan.

This is more about scientific thinking in general rather than about any particular branch of science. Also very easy to follow for us non-scientific types. :-)

Great idea for a thread, by the way....

-A.

[AMG]

I have tried to read about famous mathematicians, and do very well until they get to the math part.

I have learned a few key concepts though:

For every one of them that published a significant discovery, there is another one who claims to have discovered it earlier, but didn't publish his findings. This often resulted in the gentlemanly exchange of formal letters stating: No you didn't Yes I did. No you didn't Yes I did. No you didn't Yes I did. into Infinity (which may or may not actually be infinite)

Most important of all--and this is from Pythagoras--if a mathematician offers you cruise tickets Do Not Accept them. No boating. It's the equivalent of "drinking the Koolaid"

Newton was beaten up alot. No wonder the apple fell on his head. He was a universal target.




Hehehehe. You are too funny. :)

[Glia]

Thank you,Brainysmurf00 I have been thinking about that movie and wanting to see it again. :D

I was on a Dan Brown binge there for a few weeks. Got through with classes and had time to read. :D

[Brainysmurf00]

For Feynman Fans ...

Some of Feynman's letters have been published in the British paper The Guardian. You can check them out here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1481368,00.html

His daughter Michelle collected them and edited them, and they include letters to strangers and other famous scientists.

The Letters include the topics:
On the Bomb
On Science
On the Nobel Prize
On Religion
On Science Writing (a letter to James Watson, discoverer of the structure of DNA)
On Teaching
On Loss (this is particularly heartbreaking)


You should all quickly look at that link I posted. If you don't want to read through all the letters, scroll down and at least read the one letter "On Loss." Oh man, I was crying. Feynman was not only an amazingly brilliant physicist, but he was poetic romantic. Beautiful. Simply beautiful.

[mathfan9]

Most important of all--and this is from Pythagoras--if a mathematician offers you cruise tickets Do Not Accept them. No boating. It's the equivalent of "drinking the Koolaid"

Personally, It's a great comfort to have the Face of Mathematics be a man who had to take algebra 3 times TMEDK.

You may be infinitely relieved to know I have no intention of reviewing them for the book club. :lol:

Ah, I take it you're referring to the Pythagoreans who made someone walk the plank for discovering that the square root of 2 was an irrational number.

I agree with your "Face of Mathematics" comment. I would think it would be a motivation to people who struggle with math to think that this actor could have failed algebra twice and yet appear so brilliant (one of the articles mentioned on the forum quoted a CalTech consultant as saying David could have been a mathematician since he's picking up the math concepts so quickly).

I think a review of your books would be wonderful! You wouldn't have to go through every detail, but it would be interesting to know your feelings as you went through the material.

[RTST]

A Numb3rs book club: what a brilliant idea!

And I can feel for DK and his high school struggles in Math. I'm slightly dyslexic with numbers, so it was always my hardest class.

But beyond learning the concepts of math, I kept asking my teachers the same question over and over again and never got a satisfactory answer until this show: "How do most math concepts relate to anything in life, anyway." I suspected there must be some sort of answer; algebra must exist for SOME reason. I'm so glad to know my instincts were correct--even if my teachers were lacking.

I think I could have really benefitted from a "Math for Nonmathematicians" course from Charlie :)

Now I have to go back though the list of good book suggestions . . .

[Grace480]

I just read a good review for a new book about physics titled A Different Universe: Reinventing Physics From the Bottom Down, by Robert B. Laughlin. Professor Laughlin won the 1998 Nobel Prize in Physics. This book was just published at the end of March 2005. It's about a new theory called "emergence" which opposes string theory by basically saying with groups of objects the sum is often greater than the whole. Therefore, it makes more sense to study the emerging properties of a collective group to assess behavior and observe natural laws. Examples could be molecules forming DNA, or gases which only obey their "laws" in a collective form. The author mentions that people use an internal combustion engine or a computer every day but scientists still don't totally understand why all of their parts work together the way they do (is this true? I thought it was just me). Anyway I looked up some other reviews and the consensus seems to be the book is full of new and fascinating theories and ideas relating to physics. There are also interesting analogies and illustrations. However, Laughlin is no Feynman when it comes to writing, so the book could be a little clearer and more refined in it's structure and explanations. Most reviewers still thought it was worhwhile reading.

On a slightly different note but still pertaining to math and science books, Louis Leithold passed away on April 29th at the age of 80. Dr. Leithold wrote The Calculus, which became one of the most widely used calculus textbooks and helped change the way the subject was taught. He taught at numerous universities during his career. At age 72 he declined to retire and instead launched a calculus program at Malibu High School. Mattheew Mesher, a 17 year old student, said of Dr. Leithold, "He inspired you to do mathematics. His face would just light up." That quote made me think of Charlie and how he just looks so enraptured when he's talking about math. The writers and DK do such a fantastic job making Charlie come to life as an amazing mathematician and teacher. I can just envision an 80 year-old Charlie teaching kids about math and his face lit up in excitement and pleasure. :D

[penguingal]

Wow. These recommendations are great. I'm in the middle of The Golden Ratio and I bought Surely You're Joking... for my physicist brother.

Copenhagen is one of my all time favorite plays. If you're really into it, I'd also recommed The Copenhagen Papers, Frayn's behind the scenes followup surrounding a practical joke played on him by the man who starred as Bohr.

For the lighter side of Art and Physics, I'd recommend Picasso at the Lapin Agile by Steve Martin where Picasso and Einstein have an historic meeting. Hilarity ensues.

Finally, Incompleteness: The Proof and Paradox of Kurt Godel also looks fascinating. I picked this up a while ago and haven't gotten to it yet having been distracted by other reading. From what I understand, it's an intriguing concept and I look forward to finally being able to digest it.

[Brainysmurf00]

Copenhagen is one of my all time favorite plays. If you're really into it, I'd also recommed The Copenhagen Papers, Frayn's behind the scenes followup surrounding a practical joke played on him by the man who starred as Bohr.


Wahoo! A fellow Copenhagen fan! Seriously people, if you enjoy the Larry-Charlie interactions on Numb3rs, you'll enjoy Copenhagen. Bohr was Heisenberg's mentor. In the play, an older Bohr who fears politics, is having a discussion with a younger Heisenberg, who is a scientist working for the German government. Noisy Edge-like discussions ensue.
It's a fast-read, and very digestible. Or see it if you can!

Penguingal, (great signiture, by the way), are The Copenhagen Papers primarily about the staging of the play? Or are they also about the history of the actual Bohr-Heisenberg meeting in Copenhagen?

[penguingal]

Copenhagen is one of my all time favorite plays. If you're really into it, I'd also recommed The Copenhagen Papers, Frayn's behind the scenes followup surrounding a practical joke played on him by the man who starred as Bohr.


Seriously people, if you enjoy the Larry-Charlie interactions on Numb3rs, you'll enjoy Copenhagen. Bohr was Heisenberg's mentor. In the play, an older Bohr who fears politics, is having a discussion with a younger Heisenberg, who is a scientist working for the German government. Noisy Edge-like discussions ensue.
It's a fast-read, and very digestible. Or see it if you can!

Penguingal, (great signiture, by the way), are The Copenhagen Papers primarily about the staging of the play? Or are they also about the history of the actual Bohr-Heisenberg meeting in Copenhagen?

Yes! I see so much of Bohr and Heisenberg in the relationship between Larry and Charlie. I even wrote a Numb3rs fanfic called the Copenhagen Interpretation. :D I saw it in Philadelphia and was absolutely enamoured, which is saying something for such a non-scientist, non-engineer such as me. In the play, Bohr is always trying to slow Heisenberg down to examine the philosophical implications of the science. I saw that a lot from Larry in "Sacrifice".

Anyway, The Copenhagen Papers centers around a practical joke played on Frayn by David Burke, the man who created the role of Bohr for the London production. He posed as a London housewife who'd found some aged and faded papers in barely legible German under her floorboards. Burke sent Frayn a package of these papers and maintained a correspondnce with him causing Frayn to make quite a leap in logic and conclude they must have belonged to Heisenberg and the other German physicists when they were being held in Britian. The book is written by Frayn and Burke and is absolutely hilarious. The intrigue going on behind the scenes and the relationship between these two men is priceless.

So, to answer your question more directly, it's really about neither. It does explore a little about the genesis of the play and along the way the source material is more fully explored, but it's really about this one incident and how these two men kept digging deeper holes for themselves.

[Brainysmurf00]

Yes! I see so much of Bohr and Heisenberg in the relationship between Larry and Charlie. I even wrote a Numb3rs fanfic called the Copenhagen Interpretation. In the play, Bohr is always trying to slow Heisenberg down to examine the philosophical implications of the science. I saw that a lot from Larry in "Sacrifice".

Ahh, yes, "Sacrifice" that is what I meant when I said "Noisy Edge." oops! :oops:


Burke sent Frayn a package of these papers and maintained a correspondnce with him causing Frayn to make quite a leap in logic and conclude they must have belonged to Heisenberg and the other German physicists when they were being held in Britian.

That sounds like the Farm Hall transcripts. You should read those! They are fascinating. They are the real transcripts of what the German scientists being held in England said after they heard about the dropping of the bomb on Hiroshima. It's fascinating to read their reactions, especially Heisenberg's.

ETA: Here's a link to some excerpts of the Farm Hall conversations:
http://www.aip.org/history/heisenberg/p11a.htm
You can see the issue of morality came up as an excuse for why the German scientists never built a bomb. Did they really want to? In the complete transcripts, it is interesting to see that it was not Heisenberg that first came up with that idea. It was another scientist that claimed that the German's failed because, in their hearts, they didn't want to supply Hitler with a bomb. Then Heisenberg sort of jumped on that bandwagon. He was initially concerned with the technical details of how the Americans built the bomb, though.
After the war, many American physicists scorned Heisenberg because they thought he was complying with the Nazis. Others were neutral towards him because they wanted to operate as a scientific community and forget about politics. Then a book came out praising Heisenberg as a hero who stayed in Germany so he could sabotage the Nazi Bomb project from the inside. So there are many different images of Heisenberg. That's why Copenhagen is a fascinating play - it offers another conception of Heisenberg.

[penguingal]

Oooh... those sound fascinating. I'll have to look for them the next time I'm haunting Barnes and Noble ready to spend an ungodly amount of money (this happens more times than I'd like to admit).

[Brainysmurf00]

Oooh... those sound fascinating. I'll have to look for them the next time I'm haunting Barnes and Noble ready to spend an ungodly amount of money (this happens more times than I'd like to admit).

I just added a big ETA to my last post with a link to some excerpts of the transcripts - so no money required!

[penguingal]

Oooh... those sound fascinating. I'll have to look for them the next time I'm haunting Barnes and Noble ready to spend an ungodly amount of money (this happens more times than I'd like to admit).

I just added a big ETA to my last post with a link to some excerpts of the transcripts - so no money required!

Awesome! Thanks so much. I'll have to peruse those soon. I have managed to get absolutely nothing done today as I've been poking around here most of the day. Time to get focused! (Aah, who am I kidding?)

[blogmeistermark]

"Prime Obsession" by John Derbyshire: about the Riemann Hypothesis, the most important still unsolved problem. This is a challenging book: you have to be willing to think a lot about the math; knowing some Calculus helps.

If you haven't done so yet, check out my blog where a lot of the math in NUMB3RS is explained. Feedback welcome. Here's the URL:

http://www.atsweb.neu.edu/math/cp/blog/

[mathfan9]

If you haven't done so yet, check out my blog where a lot of the math in NUMB3RS is explained. Feedback welcome. Here's the URL:

http://www.atsweb.neu.edu/math/cp/blog/

Nick said that this was his favorite math explanation blog. We have it listed in the newbie thread as a good place to look.

[Brainysmurf00]

If you haven't done so yet, check out my blog where a lot of the math in NUMB3RS is explained. Feedback welcome. Here's the URL:

http://www.atsweb.neu.edu/math/cp/blog/

Nick said that this was his favorite math explanation blog. We have it listed in the newbie thread as a good place to look.

It is an excellent blog. And blogmeistermark is a really nice guy! He responds if you email him, and sometimes, he'll include you in the blog! Hi blogmeister! Good to see you on the boards!

[LeWombat]

Finished reading Five Equations That Changed the World. I liked it. It was a good starter book. Although I wished it had gone into more detail about each person's thought process, more about how they arrived at their realization. And I would have preferred much less of the "He and his wife sat by the hearth admiring their baby daughter." commentary. What? You were there dude? I like biographical perspective, but that I can do without.

[prbabe]

Hi Everyone! The list has been updated and I have included new sections for Math and Science Movies and Plays as well as Recource Websites. Thanks to eatmoechikin, lilavati, thrity3d, nypam, Brainysmurf00, Gila, AMG, Grace 480, penguingal and blogmeistermark for the new suggestions - keep them coming!
:D

[prbabe]

Finished reading Five Equations That Changed the World. I liked it. It was a good starter book. Although I wished it had gone into more detail about each person's thought process, more about how they arrived at their realization. And I would have preferred much less of the "He and his wife sat by the hearth admiring their baby daughter." commentary. What? You were there dude? I like biographical perspective, but that I can do without.

To me, it was the biographical perspective that made this a great book to get me started on the road to reading more about math and science. It was just enough of the "His wife sat by the hearth..." information to keep me entertained. I don't know if I would have been able to handle a book that was too "mathy" right off the bat. I do wish that the book included an appendix or examples of the equations using actual numbers. I would have liked to learn more about actaully solving the equations.

What are you reading next LeWombat? I finally have time now to resume The Golden Ratio - which I like, but it seems, (to me anyway) to be jumping back and forth at will between tracing origins of the golden ration and proving/disproving its relationship to nature and art, etc. I find that kind of confusing because I'm not sure where the author is going sometimes.

[LeWombat]

Finished reading Five Equations That Changed the World. I liked it. It was a good starter book. Although I wished it had gone into more detail about each person's thought process, more about how they arrived at their realization. And I would have preferred much less of the "He and his wife sat by the hearth admiring their baby daughter." commentary. What? You were there dude? I like biographical perspective, but that I can do without.

To me, it was the biographical perspective that made this a great book to get me started on the road to reading more about math and science. It was just enough of the "His wife sat by the hearth..." information to keep me entertained. I don't know if I would have been able to handle a book that was too "mathy" right off the bat. I do wish that the book included an appendix or examples of the equations using actual numbers. I would have liked to learn more about actaully solving the equations.

What are you reading next LeWombat? I finally have time now to resume The Golden Ratio - which I like, but it seems, (to me anyway) to be jumping back and forth at will between tracing origins of the golden ration and proving/disproving its relationship to nature and art, etc. I find that kind of confusing because I'm not sure where the author is going sometimes.

Well, I don't mind the "wife sitting by the hearth" stuff, I just hope it wasn't at the expense of providing info about how they arrived at their conclusions. But I did like it! A good intro. I was hoping for a bibliography at the end, but nada. I was surprised at that.

I was thinking of starting "The Golden Ratio" myself. :D

[LeWombat]

Just checked out the updates. This is terriffic! You're doing a great job prbabe. :D

[Brainysmurf00]

Great job with the updates prbabe! Oh, please include the website that I mentioned in this post. Can never get enough Feynman!

For Feynman Fans ...

Some of Feynman's letters have been published in the British paper The Guardian. You can check them out here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1481368,00.html

His daughter Michelle collected them and edited them, and they include letters to strangers and other famous scientists.

The Letters include the topics:
On the Bomb
On Science
On the Nobel Prize
On Religion
On Science Writing (a letter to James Watson, discoverer of the structure of DNA)
On Teaching
On Loss (this is particularly heartbreaking)


You should all quickly look at that link I posted. If you don't want to read through all the letters, scroll down and at least read the one letter "On Loss." Oh man, I was crying. Feynman was not only an amazingly brilliant physicist, but he was poetic romantic. Beautiful. Simply beautiful.

[prbabe]

Just added the website for the Feynman letters Brainysmurf00. Thanks for the reminder. Sorry I missed that.
I'm glad that you all like the updates (thanks LeWombat). Keep the suggestions coming!
:D

[Improviser]

Thank you, all, for the recommendations. I would like to add two books I enjoyed.

The World's Most Famous Math Problem by Marilyn vos Savant
The Man Who Knew Infinity: A Life of the Genius Ramanujan by Robert Kanigel

[BeckyS]

Folks, I can't tell you how much I appreciate this thread! It was the math section's turn to get updated in my library this year, and it was the easiest selection process I've ever had! :lol:

Didn't get everything you folks suggested, and we actually had several of them already, but I feel really good that we will have some of the best stuff out there.

THANK YOU!!!

Becky

[rbriggs]

Great job with the updates prbabe! Oh, please include the website that I mentioned in this post. Can never get enough Feynman!

For Feynman Fans ...

Some of Feynman's letters have been published in the British paper The Guardian. You can check them out here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1481368,00.html

His daughter Michelle collected them and edited them, and they include letters to strangers and other famous scientists.

The Letters include the topics:
On the Bomb
On Science
On the Nobel Prize
On Religion
On Science Writing (a letter to James Watson, discoverer of the structure of DNA)
On Teaching
On Loss (this is particularly heartbreaking)


You should all quickly look at that link I posted. If you don't want to read through all the letters, scroll down and at least read the one letter "On Loss." Oh man, I was crying. Feynman was not only an amazingly brilliant physicist, but he was poetic romantic. Beautiful. Simply beautiful.

Chiming in late here, but wow! That last letter was heart tugging!

[prbabe]

Folks, I can't tell you how much I appreciate this thread! It was the math section's turn to get updated in my library this year, and it was the easiest selection process I've ever had! :lol:

Didn't get everything you folks suggested, and we actually had several of them already, but I feel really good that we will have some of the best stuff out there.

THANK YOU!!!

Becky

BeckyS, what a compliment!!!! I'm so glad that this thread has helped you. That really made me smile. Shout out to everyone and their great suggestions.
Welcome Improviser. Your suggestions have been added to the list on page 1.
:D

[mathfan9]

I'm really looking forward to reading some of these books this summer!

[Alamo Girl]

I mentioned this thread to some of the local museum directors and librarians here for ideas on math and science related selections to add to their collections.

They loved it and were very impressed that a thread for a TV show could be this informative!

Way to go guys! :D :D :D

[prbabe]

I mentioned this thread to some of the local museum and librarians here for ideas on math and science realted selections to add to their collections.

They loved it and were very impressed that a thread for a TV show could be this informative!

Way to go guys! :D :D :D

Yeah Alamo Girl!!! A big shout out to everyone for their wonderful suggestions!
:D

[mathfan9]

Numb3rs Book Club Recommendations (and who recommended it)

...Genuis by James Gleick - CHeuton

I started reading this book about Richard Feynman that Cheryl recommended, and I was excited to find, on page 15 & 16, that Feynman thought that the equation below (which is an alternate form of the equation in my signature) was "The Most Remarkable Formula In Math"!
..........................................http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/mathfan9/Equations/etotheiPiplusoneequalszero.gif

[Alamo Girl]

Here are some titles I've been sifting through to help understand what it may have been like for a kid like Charlie, growing up. And why he may be the way he is today... :)

Gifted Children: Myths and Realities
by Ellen Winner

Snippet notes from Publisher's Weekly on it:

Stephen, aged 5, fluently reads orchestral scores. Hillary, 12, ranked in the 99th percentile nationally in all subjects (math, language, reading, science, social studies) on standardized aptitude tests. Winner's case studies of exceptional children are as intrinsically interesting as her findings in this eye-opening study. Gifted children, we learn, are often socially isolated and unhappy. Having a high IQ is irrelevant to giftedness in art or music. Only a very few of the gifted become eminent, creative adults-and when parents are over-involved or push to excess, gifted children are especially likely to drop out or lose interest in their domain of talent.
~~~

When Gifted Kids Don't Have All the Answers: How to Meet Their Social and Emotional Needs
by Jim Delisle

Snip from Library Journal:

Most teachers and parents focus on the intellectual needs of gifted students without addressing their ability to handle social situations, academic pressure, teasing, and fear of failure. Though gifted students often appear to be well integrated, a closer look reveals that they frequently experience feelings of isolation, boredom, and even depression. After a significant section devoted to identifying the gifted and the need for specialized education programs for this population, this work delves into the emotional dimensions of giftedness and how to understand gifted kids from the "inside out" through first-person stories, classroom-tested activities, guided discussions, and up-to-date resources.

This is particularly interesting to me!
~~~

The Prodigy/a Biography of William Sidis, America's Greatest Child Prodigy
by Amy Wallace


As for William James Sidus himself, here was a person who lectured on 4th dimensional mathematics at Harvard at the age of 11. It was said that he probably spoke every language of mankind- and actually invented entirely new languages of his own. He wrote the first book on cosmology that ever theorised the existance of black holes.

Think Larry would have liked this kid? Good Gravy! :shock:
~~~

You're Gonna Miss the Prom: A True Life Account and Guide Book for Gifted Kids
by Lauren Betancourt


Author, Lauren Betancourt skipped high school and entered college at age 13, graduating at age 16. This book details the process she took, the social questions and answers on entering college early, pros and cons.

From the Publisher
Do kids that enter college before the age of 16 have social problems fitting into college life? Do they miss out on their childhood? What advantages and disadvantages are there for kids who accelerate? Exactly what process do you have to take to enter college at a young age? If I accelerate my child, what will people think? Is my child ready for acceleration? All these questions, and more, are answered in this book.

Hmmm...remind you of someone?

All of these titles can be found at BarnsandNoble.com and Amazon.com

[Alamo Girl]

A bit of light reading...no, really!! This is supposed to be easy to understand.. even if you guide is Albert Einstein! *grin!* :D

The Quantum World : Quantum Physics for Everyone
by Kenneth W. Ford, Paul Hewitt


Albert Einstein's objections to the theoretical underpinnings of quantum physics are usually summed up in his famous quote, "God doesn't play dice." Unfortunately for Einstein, experimental evidence over the past 75 years has consistently showed that the cosmos does indeed play dice.

A clear and simple map of the strange world of the quantum by an experienced guide.
-------

The Great Beyond : Higher Dimensions, Parallel Universes and the Extraordinary Search for a Theory of Everything
by Paul Halpern

Snip-From Publishers Weekly

Ever since Plato first told his students the allegory of the cave, people have wondered whether dimensions exist beyond the three we immediately perceive. An extra dimension—time—played a role in Einstein's work, although he saw it only as a necessary evil to get his equations to work. Other scientists were more receptive: mathematical physicists Oskar Klein and Theodor Kaluza made higher dimensions an integral part of their attempts to discover a "theory of everything" that would tie together strong and weak nuclear forces, electromagnetism and gravity.
Halpern masterfully creates word pictures to illustrate mind-bending scientific theories, and he paints highly detailed sketches of the scientists involved—sometimes too detailed, leading readers to lose the thread of the narrative. Science buffs won't find much new here, but for average readers, this is an accessible account of the search for what lies behind our dim perception of reality.

Oooo...this one has pictures! Good.. I'll need diagrams...*eyes bug out* :shock: :shock: 8)

[mathfan9]

Ooh! I'm glad you put the little blurbs here, because I'll never have time to read them all. They sound really interesting, though. Just reading the blurbs was really helpful to understanding Charlie.

I'm still trying to make my way through Genius and Cryptonomicon!

[Alamo Girl]

You are welcome. I thought maybe people might get a better idea about the content of these books with the blurbs posted.

I know I always get hooked into a plot premise by the blurb.

[prbabe]

The list has been updated. Perhaps someday I'll alphabetize!
Thanks for the great suggestions Alamo Girl.

Is anyone reading anything interesting?

[mathfan9]

Another quote from Genius:

"When Feynman took a laboratory course, the instructor was Harold Edgerton, an inventor and tinkerer who soon became famous for his high-speed photographs, made with a stroboscope..."

And grandfather to our very own Agent Edgerton, perhaps? Now that's interesting...

[rbriggs]

Snip-From Publishers Weekly

Ever since Plato first told his students the allegory of the cave, people have wondered whether dimensions exist beyond the three we immediately perceive. An extra dimension—time—played a role in Einstein's work, although he saw it only as a necessary evil to get his equations to work. Other scientists were more receptive: mathematical physicists Oskar Klein and Theodor Kaluza made higher dimensions an integral part of their attempts to discover a "theory of everything" that would tie together strong and weak nuclear forces, electromagnetism and gravity.
Halpern masterfully creates word pictures to illustrate mind-bending scientific theories, and he paints highly detailed sketches of the scientists involved—sometimes too detailed, leading readers to lose the thread of the narrative. Science buffs won't find much new here, but for average readers, this is an accessible account of the search for what lies behind our dim perception of reality.

Oooo...this one has pictures! Good.. I'll need diagrams...*eyes bug out* :shock: :shock: 8)

Plato's Allegory of the Cave fascinates me. It makes me a little dizzy trying to grasp it all. My basic understanding of it illustrates how shallow I can really be about the world around me.

[mathfan9]

I just keep finding more and more things in this book Genius, about Richard Feynman, that relate to Numb3rs. First was the bit about how Edgerton was one of his instructors, and now there's a whole section about why the past should be the same mathematically as the future. (Remember how Larry talked about that in the pilot? I think Hawking expanded on it further, but it's also in this book.)

[Alamo Girl]

I just keep finding more and more things in this book Genius, about Richard Feynman, that relate to Numb3rs. First was the bit about how Edgerton was one of his instructors, and now there's a whole section about why the past should be the same mathematically as the future. (Remember how Larry talked about that in the pilot? I think Hawking expanded on it further, but it's also in this book.)

See when Larry said that line about the past and future...it kinda puzzled me for a second. I was trying to think it out logically, then I remembered.. .this is Larry we are dealing with...he's on a different "plane of exhistance" from me a lot of the time. :wink:

Unless he's offering some sage wisdome to Charlie about life and the messyness of human nature. Then, I get him perfectly! :D

So is the past being mathematically the same as the future have to do with quantifying time? That still puzzles the heck out of me! :shock:

[mathfan9]

So is the past being mathematically the same as the future have to do with quantifying time? That still puzzles the heck out of me! :shock:

It still puzzles the heck of me, and I'm reading the explanations! Here's one quote: "Here the problem of time's symmetry entered the picture. The electromagnetic equations worked magnificiently when retarded waves were correctly incorporated. They worked equally well when the sign of the time quantities were reversed, from plus to minus. Translated back from mathematics into physics, that meant advanced waves -- waves that were received before they were emitted. Understandably, physicists preferred to stay with the retarded wave solutions. An advanced wave, running backward in time, seemed peculiar."

A few pages further, it goes on to say that the symmetry of past and future, however, only holds true in the microscopic sense. "A movie showing a drop of ink diffusing in a glass of water looks wrong when run backward. Yet a movie showing the microscopic motion of any one ink molecule would look the same backward or forward. The random motions of each ink molecule can be reversed, but the overall diffusion cannot be. The system is microscopically reversible, macroscopically irreversible. It is a matter of chaos and probability." So that helped a little! It's still confusing, though.

[Brainysmurf00]

Another quote from Genius:

"When Feynman took a laboratory course, the instructor was Harold Edgerton, an inventor and tinkerer who soon became famous for his high-speed photographs, made with a stroboscope..."

And grandfather to our very own Agent Edgerton, perhaps? Now that's interesting...

Here are some examples of Edgerton photographs:

http://web.mit.edu/Edgerton/www/index.jpg

Harold Edgerton is quite beloved around MIT. He was a big advocate for interactive learning. There is a whole center dedicated to him, and there are interactive displays in one of the corridors.

Check out the Feynman display:
http://web.mit.edu/Edgerton/www/FeynmanSprinkler.html
It's a sprinkler!
:shock:

[mathfan9]

Check out the Feynman display:
http://web.mit.edu/Edgerton/www/FeynmanSprinkler.html
It's a sprinkler!

Hey, that's way cool!

[Brainysmurf00]

Snip-From Publishers Weekly

Ever since Plato first told his students the allegory of the cave, people have wondered whether dimensions exist beyond the three we immediately perceive. An extra dimension—time—played a role in Einstein's work, although he saw it only as a necessary evil to get his equations to work. Other scientists were more receptive: mathematical physicists Oskar Klein and Theodor Kaluza made higher dimensions an integral part of their attempts to discover a "theory of everything" that would tie together strong and weak nuclear forces, electromagnetism and gravity.
Halpern masterfully creates word pictures to illustrate mind-bending scientific theories, and he paints highly detailed sketches of the scientists involved—sometimes too detailed, leading readers to lose the thread of the narrative. Science buffs won't find much new here, but for average readers, this is an accessible account of the search for what lies behind our dim perception of reality.

Oooo...this one has pictures! Good.. I'll need diagrams...*eyes bug out* :shock: :shock: 8)

Plato's Allegory of the Cave fascinates me. It makes me a little dizzy trying to grasp it all. My basic understanding of it illustrates how shallow I can really be about the world around me.


Oooh! I love Allegory of the Cave. That reminds me... I can't believe I didn't remember to recommend this before.
Flatland : A Romance of Many Dimensions
by Edwin A. Abbott
It has Allegory of the Cave-like elements.

There are other books along similar lines, but Flatland is the original classic.
Flatterland: Like Flatland, Only More So
by Ian Stewart
Sphereland
by Dionys Burger

Here's the Amazon blurb about a version of Flatland published with Sphereland:
"Unless you're a mathematician, the chances of you reading any novels about geometry are probably slender. But if you read only two in your life, these are the ones. Taken together, they form a couple of accessible and charming explanations of geometry and physics for the curious non-mathematician. Flatland, which is also available under separate cover, was published in 1880 and imagines a two-dimensional world inhabited by sentient geometric shapes who think their planar world is all there is. But one Flatlander, a Square, discovers the existence of a third dimension and the limits of his world's assumptions about reality and comes to understand the confusing problem of higher dimensions. The book is also quite a funny satire on society and class distinctions of Victorian England.
The further mathematical fantasy, Sphereland, published 60 years later, revisits the world of Flatland in time to explore the mind-bending theories created by Albert Einstein, whose work so completely altered the scientific understanding of space, time, and matter. Among Einstein's many challenges to common sense were the ideas of curved space, an expanding universe and the fact that light does not travel in a straight line. Without use of the mathematical formulae that bar most non-scientists from an understanding of Einstein's theories, Sphereland gives lay readers ways to start comprehending these confusing but fundamental questions of our reality."

[mathfan9]

I read Flatland and liked it. I have Sphereland, but never got around to reading it. It just didn't seem like there was a whole lot more you could say on that topic.

[Alamo Girl]

Here are some examples of Edgerton photographs:

http://web.mit.edu/Edgerton/www/index.jpg



Oh cool! The bullet through the apple is one of my favorites of his!

[penguinloverinmo]

I wanted to post about the reference to Harold Edgerton. He grew up in Aurora, Nebraska which isn't too far from where I grew up and taught second grade for 8 years. The Edgerton Exploration Center located in Aurora is a wonderful place to take kids, there are many hands on activities as well as great learning opportunities. The Center has many examples of his strobes and pictures including the ones posted here.

I just had to post since I could connect something to my home state of Nebraska.

Also I was excited when in Structural Corruption Charlie is giving examples of structural problems and Mentions Kansas City since I now live 20 min. from there.

*disclaimer* I wasn't excited about the actual event rather that it was mentioned on one of my favorite tv shows.

[Lisa]

Here are some examples of Edgerton photographs:

http://web.mit.edu/Edgerton/www/index.jpg

Harold Edgerton is quite beloved around MIT. He was a big advocate for interactive learning. There is a whole center dedicated to him, and there are interactive displays in one of the corridors.

Check out the Feynman display:
http://web.mit.edu/Edgerton/www/FeynmanSprinkler.html
It's a sprinkler!
:shock:

I watched a documentary about Edgerton's photographs and how he did what he did (and why). I need to revisit his work - I found it fascinating.

Think the Edgerton thing is just a coincidence?

[mathfan9]

Think the Edgerton thing is just a coincidence?

No way! Cheryl said that one of the books that gave her and Nick the idea for the series was Genius, so I know she read it. It might have been a conscious choice, or it might have just been in the back of her subconscious. But surely the connection was there.

I started reading another recommended book today. I was going to wait until I finished Genius, but I bought The Tipping Point at Borders just before I had to wait 45 minutes for a haircut, so I started reading it. That book is much, much cooler than I thought it was going to be. It's really ingenious how the author puts everything together. (I'm up to page 61 so far.)

I also got Fermat's Engima so I could talk to BrainySmurf about it, but haven't started reading that one yet.

[Brainysmurf00]

I also got Fermat's Engima so I could talk to BrainySmurf about it, but haven't started reading that one yet.

Oh no! 'Twas not me who recommended it, and I've never read it. Sorry mathfan9. :( But I feel special that you want to chat with me about books. I'll try to read more of the recommended books, but as I am currently in the midst of an Oscar Wilde obsession, I'm not sure when I am going to get around to them.

[BeckyS]

I wanted to post about the reference to Harold Edgerton. He grew up in Aurora, Nebraska which isn't too far from where I grew up and taught second grade for 8 years. The Edgerton Exploration Center located in Aurora is a wonderful place to take kids, there are many hands on activities as well as great learning opportunities. The Center has many examples of his strobes and pictures including the ones posted here.

I just had to post since I could connect something to my home state of Nebraska.

Gee, wish I'd known this last week -- I was in Seward NE on Monday. (They have a stunningly beautiful new library.) Aurora's not far from there, from what I can tell. About 70 miles?

Becky

[penguinloverinmo]

I wanted to post about the reference to Harold Edgerton. He grew up in Aurora, Nebraska which isn't too far from where I grew up and taught second grade for 8 years. The Edgerton Exploration Center located in Aurora is a wonderful place to take kids, there are many hands on activities as well as great learning opportunities. The Center has many examples of his strobes and pictures including the ones posted here.

I just had to post since I could connect something to my home state of Nebraska.

Gee, wish I'd known this last week -- I was in Seward NE on Monday. (They have a stunningly beautiful new library.) Aurora's not far from there, from what I can tell. About 70 miles?


Becky



It isn't to far, I am not exactly sure of the mileage. If you don't mind me asking where are you from exactly. I graduated from Battle Creek and taught in Cedar Rapids. (The Nebraska one, not Iowa)

[mathfan9]

I also got Fermat's Engima so I could talk to BrainySmurf about it, but haven't started reading that one yet.

Oh no! 'Twas not me who recommended it, and I've never read it. Sorry mathfan9. :( But I feel special that you want to chat with me about books. I'll try to read more of the recommended books, but as I am currently in the midst of an Oscar Wilde obsession, I'm not sure when I am going to get around to them.

So sorry! I looked back to see who indeed it was, then, and it was mathmajor. So maybe she'll talk to me about it (although I'm in the middle of so many books right now, who knows when I'll start it...).

[LeWombat]

I just finished the second chapter of The Golden Ratio. I like how the author stops in the middle of an explanation to ask, "Isn't this mind-boggling?".

I read at lunchtime and inevitably that's when people want to stand around by my desk and talk. "Be quiet! I'm concentrating!" :x

Yeah, that's me. I have to reread paragraphs two or three times before I fully understand. Not that the book is so hard. It's just that I'm that rusty. (If indeed I ever understood any of it in school.)



8)

[LetterstoElise]

oh my!!!! lewombat! I'm reading that as well. I'm about half way through. wait till you get to Euclidian solids and the craaazy things people come up with.

[fadedambition]

I just ordered this: http://www.worldscibooks.com/physics/2703.html


Series on Knots and Everything - Vol. 9

COMBINATORIAL PHYSICS

by T Bastin & C W Kilmister


Just what I've been looking for.
Does anyone know of other books since 1995 on the same thing? :)

[mathfan9]

Series on Knots and Everything - Vol. 9

Does anyone know of other books since 1995 on the same thing? :)

Not on this level. Some of my books have a chapter on knots, but it's very general and usually just leads into a very basic topology discussion.

I'm still working on reading Genius. I had read a book about the history of quantum mechanics previously (The Second Creation by Crease and Mann). I had run into a lot of the same people that are in this book -- Heisenberg, Schwinger, Dyson, Tomonaga, Gell-Mann, etc. But I couldn't remember Feynman in that book at all. I looked in the index, and his name was only mention on 11 pages. The Second Creation was published in 1986, and Feynman died in 1988. Genius was published in 1992. The difference between the two books certainly made me realize how many details must be left out of historical accounts. Looking at the history of a subject vs. the biography of an individual lets you see things in very different ways.

[Brainysmurf00]

Ok, I haven't read this book yet, but i just heard about it because the movie rights have just been sold, and I thought it would be something the Numb3rs crowd would be interested in. This book is a collection of short stories called On the Nature of Human Romantic Interaction by Karl Iagnemma.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385335938/qid=1119798485/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-1495388-7785536?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

The meticulousness of science and mathematics is applied to the mysteries of love in Iagnemma's debut collection, which features eight complex, multilayered stories in which protagonists try to balance the demands of the heart against their need for rational, orderly thinking.
*Starred Review* Iagnemma, a research scientist at MIT, is a rising star among short story writers, having won both a Pushcart Prize and a coveted spot in last year's Best American Short Stories. His debut collection explores the places where faith, love, and science all intersect.

The article in which I first read about the book come from MIT news:
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2005/iagnemma.html

[mathfan9]

Ok, I haven't read this book yet, but i just heard about it because the movie rights have just been sold, and I thought it would be something the Numb3rs crowd would be interested in. This book is a collection of short stories called On the Nature of Human Romantic Interaction by Karl Iagnemma.

That sounds very interesting, Brainysmurf!

Also Cheryl's quote about the mathematicians turning coffee into theorems in another thread made me think about Paul Erdos. The Man Who Loved Only Numbers is his biography. He was quite an interesting fellow. He did mathematics in more than twenty-five countries, often publishing his proofs in obscure journals, which caused one of his collegues to compose the following limerick:

A conjecture both deep and profound
Is whether a circle is round.
In a paper of Erdos, ("Air-dis")
Written in Kurdish,
A counterexample is found.

When Erdos heard of the limerick, he wanted to publish a paper in Kurdish, but couldn't find a Kurdish math journal.

And as Marina K. said in the Fan Art forum, he called children "epsilons" because in the formal definition of a limit, epsilon is the symbol used for a very tiny distance on the axis of the dependent variable.

[fadedambition]

My copy of Combinatorical Physics arrived today. It looks interesting, but it seems like its a bit more like a philosophical justification for a combinatorical physics instead of developing a combinatorical physics. *sigh*

The rest of the series seems interesting though.

[mathfan9]

I finally finished Genius the night before last. I'm going to make myself finish Cryptonomicon before starting on another book. I think I'll read The Tipping Point after that.

faded, sorry to hear about your physics book. One of the things I did learn from Genius was that Feynman hated philosophy.

[fadedambition]

I finally finished Genius the night before last. I'm going to make myself finish Cryptonomicon before starting on another book. I think I'll read The Tipping Point after that.

faded, sorry to hear about your physics book. One of the things I did learn from Genius was that Feynman hated philosophy.

That's cool, I've read Cryptonomicon, but not Genius.

Yeah I mean the other books in this series have some interesting applications of topology in physics. I mean its mostly a look at quantum topology and quantum invariants. That aspect of the series is pretty neat, but its just this one book that let me down since I had hoped for a bit more then what I got.

Well that's ironic about Feynman since the current bottleneck in computing is largely on fault of Feynman's philosophy on what Turing meant in his work on computing. :P

[mathfan9]

That's cool, I've read Cryptonomicon, but not Genius...

Well that's ironic about Feynman since the current bottleneck in computing is largely on fault of Feynman's philosophy on what Turing meant in his work on computing. :P

Cryptonomicon is interesting, and has lots of math. But with all those stories switching back and forth, I forget what was happening the last time I met the people in a certain story line. It confuses me. I've been reading it off and on for nine months now. But I've only got 140 pages or so left now.

What do you mean about "Feynman's philosophy on what Turing meant in his work on computing"? Apparently the author of his biography didn't feel the need to put that part in there, so I don't know what his philosophy was.

[mathfan9]

mathmajor, how is Fermat's Enigma? Have you finished it yet?

[prbabe]

The list has been updated! Thanks Brainysmurf00, fadedambition (I was wondering when you would join the party) and mathfan9 for the great additions.

Boy, is everyone reading The Golden Ratio? I'm almost done, and yes LeWombat, I have to stop and reread paragraphs myself. I must say that I find the last chapters on the golden ration in music and art far more interesting than the one on Eculidian Solids (shout out to LetterstoElise). Though sometimes interesting, that chapter made my eyes glaze over for the most part.

I think that I will read Genius next. It sounds interesting mathfan9.

[mathfan9]

I think that I will read Genius next. It sounds interesting mathfan9.

It's a great book. It's more of a biography but it has a lot of discussion about physics, too. It's also neat to read about the experience of one particular genius to get an idea of what that must be like.

[prbabe]

I think that I will read Genius next. It sounds interesting mathfan9.

It's a great book. It's more of a biography but it has a lot of discussion about physics, too. It's also neat to read about the experience of one particular genius to get an idea of what that must be like.

I always loved biographies, so I'm looking forward to Genius. I just have to finish The Golden Ratio...

[wildfyre]

The other day, I was at my local used book store, searching for math books in the deluded hopes of entering Nick's contest. That idea was pretty much smashed....

...but I did pick up a couple of books called 'The World Book of MathPower', volumes 1 and 2.

Has anybody heard of these, and if you have, are they any good? I'm not a math person, by any stretch of the imagination, but I thought if I could teach myself something, I won't feel quite as useless as I do now. :wink:

[mathfan9]

Hmm. I have a book called Math Power, but it's only one book so I don't think it's the same. The one I have is by Kenschaft.

[wildfyre]

The spine says 'Math Skills Builder' on one book and 'Everyday Math' on the other. They are put out by World Book Encyclopedia Inc. Big, green, hard-cover things.

[mathfan9]

Oh, OK. That's not mine then. Mine is Math Power: How to Help Your Child Love Math, Even If You Don't. It is useful for parents and elementary teachers because it goes over a lot of the concepts rather than just rote practice. I really enjoyed this book.

[wildfyre]

Very cool...I should look for that one now, even though Mathew is a long way off from understanding math. Is it widely available, do you know?

[mathfan9]

I got it at a Barnes and Noble, so I think it is. If not, the information on it is:

Math Power: How to Help Your Child Love Math, Even If You Don't.
by Patricia Clark Kenschaft, published by Addison-Wesley (c) 1997.

I'm sure you could get it at Amazon.

[wildfyre]

Thanks, mathfan. I'll try and get to a book store while in Florida and look for it!

ETA: Actually I just did a search for it at our Chapters/Indigo book store site, and there is a revised edition coming out in September, and it's only $27...so I might try and snag a copy then. Thanks for the heads up!

[mathfan9]

I've gotten about half-way through The Tipping Point, and it's a fascinating book. There's not nearly as much math in there as I thought there would be. I thought he would discuss the graphs of the exponential and logistic curves to show their turning point. But he crouches his ideas in non-mathematical terms. Nevertheless, it's still extremely interesting.

Also one of the teachers on the Statistics list-serve today recommended an easy-reading history of Statisics called The Lady Tasting Tea: How Statistics Revolutionized Science in the Twentieth Century by David Salsburg. It sounds like it would be fun to read.

[Jprante]

This isn't exactly math related, but it deals with forensic science. It's a wonderful book, but this is NOT for kids and not for the faint of heart.

Portrait of a Killer: Jack the Ripper- Case Closed by Patricia Cornwell.

Once again, this story is not for kids. I'd rate it as PG-13, so I'm saying it's okay to post on this forum.

It's an excellent book, and the case that she makes is very compelling! This is not a fictional story. I was supposed to get a lecture from her next week about the book, but she had to cancel.

:(

I'll try to get to some of the other books on the list, but I have so much hard reading to do that I'm at the point that if I read, it has to be something fun that I really don't have to think about.

[lizabethe_517]

This isn't exactly math related, but it deals with forensic science. It's a wonderful book, but this is NOT for kids and not for the faint of heart.

Portrait of a Killer: Jack the Ripper- Case Closed by Patricia Cornwell.

Great book. It might not be math related but it definitely fits in with crime-solving! She really does make a good arguement... she did a tv special about it too that was really good.

[prbabe]

Hey guys, thanks for reviving this thread. As I said before, the only way to get more math and science related threads on the board is to support the ones that exist and start new ones.

Thanks to Wildfyre, mathfan9, and Jprante for the suggestions.

I actually saw a program about the Patricia Cornwell book. It was facinating! Now I think I want to read the book - that is, after I read Genius.

[redshift75]

mathmajor, how is Fermat's Enigma? Have you finished it yet?

I'm not mathmajor, but I have read Fermat's Enigma and it was truly enjoyable. And that's saying a lot as I am not a math person at all. Some of the math was a little over my head, but I was still able to enjoy the story.

I'm in the middle of another Simon Singh book called: The Code Book: The Science of Secrecy from Ancient Egypt to Quantum Cryptography that is also really interesting.

Hope you enjoy Fermat ...

[Shiva]

Hee hee! Okay, I caved in. :D

I have a copy of The Golden Ratio sitting beside me. I just got it today.

I've only gotten a few pages in ... but wow, am I intrigued!

Not bad for a young'un like me, eh? :lol:

[Jprante]

Oh, I'm so glad that my recommendation was well-received. I was not sure about forensics books, but since I know that some people are interested, this is another excellent non-fiction read.

Teasing Secrets from the Dead by Emily Craig, Ph.D.

This is about forensic anthropology, which is looking at skeletal remains. It's very interesting.

[mathfan9]

I'm not mathmajor, but I have read Fermat's Enigma and it was truly enjoyable. And that's saying a lot as I am not a math person at all. Some of the math was a little over my head, but I was still able to enjoy the story.

I'm in the middle of another Simon Singh book called: The Code Book: The Science of Secrecy from Ancient Egypt to Quantum Cryptography that is also really interesting.

Hope you enjoy Fermat ...

I'm glad to know it was enjoyable. I'm going to finish The Tipping Point first. I'm about half-way through now. Fermat's Engima will be the one that I read after that.

The Code Book sounds interesting. I just finished Cryptonomicon and that was all about the relationship between codes and mathematics. So much math is used in codes that the two topics are extremely connected nowadays.

[mathfan9]

Here's a quote from The Tipping Point that I thought some might find interesting:

"A [human]...is very good at processing certain kinds of ...information, but not so good at processing other kinds of information.

Consider the following brain teaser. Suppose I give you four cards labeled with the letters A and D and the numerals 3 and 6. The rule of the game is that a card with a vowel on it always has an even number on the other side. Which of the cards would you have to turn over to prove this rule is true? The answer is two: The A card and the three card. The overwhelming majority of people given this test, though, don't get it right. They tend to answer just the A card, or the A and the six. It's a hard question. But now let's pose another question. Suppose four people are drinking in a bar. One is drinking Coke. One is sixteen. One is drinking beer and one is twenty-five. Given the rule that no one under twenty-one is allowed to drink beer, which of those people's IDs do we have to check to make sure the law is observed? Now the answer is easy. In fact, I'm sure that almost everyone will get it right: the beer drinker and the sixteen year old. But, as the pychologist Leda Cosmides (who dreamed up this example) points out, it is exactly the same puzzle as the A, D, 3, and 6 puzzle. The difference is that it is framed in a way that makes it about people, instead of about numbers..."

[Sara]

This book recommendation is really most appropriate for teachers, but I think parents would probably find it very interesting also!

Developing More Curious Minds by John Barell.

The author is an educational consultant for the American Museum of Natural History. He makes lots of references to Richard Feynman throughout the book.

[mathfan9]

This book recommendation is really most appropriate for teachers, but I think parents would probably find it very interesting also!

Developing More Curious Minds by John Barell.

The author is an educational consultant for the American Museum of Natural History. He makes lots of references to Richard Feynman throughout the book.

That sounds interesting, Sara. It sounds like it may be along the lines of Math Power, except the latter is more about understanding major mathematical concepts than about developing curiousity. Both would be interesting to parents.

[LetterstoElise]

I've got to point this out, it's not a reccomendation, but I ADORE Jack the Ripper and all things about him. One of the most fascinating people in all of history.

To stick with book reccomendations, I'd have to say Anselm Kiefer's Merkaba. It's a bit far out, but really fascinating. It's using Kabbalah and sacred geometry to discuss spirituality.

here are some quickie websites. I warn you, it's a bit far out there:

http://www.santarichannel.com/id13.html
http://www.merkaba.org/
http://www.crystalinks.com/merkaba.html
http://www.merkaba.com

[mathfan9]

I finished The Tipping Point this evening. As you can tell from my posts in "Emerging Fandom" and here, I thought that it was a great book!

Next up: Fermat's Enigma.

[lizabethe_517]

I just wanted to let you guys know that I really enjoy reading this thread. A lot of your reading material is over my head, but I really like catching the discussions about it. (often in terms much easier to understand) I've been out of the math loop for 9 years and the highest I ever got was Calc 3 so a lot of these things are way out of my league.

I didn't want anyone to think that I was avoiding the thread. I read it a lot, I just don't have anything intelligent to contribute. :D

[mathfan9]

I just wanted to let you guys know that I really enjoy reading this thread. A lot of your reading material is over my head, but I really like catching the discussions about it. (often in terms much easier to understand) I've been out of the math loop for 9 years and the highest I ever got was Calc 3 so a lot of these things are way out of my league.

I didn't want anyone to think that I was avoiding the thread. I read it a lot, I just don't have anything intelligent to contribute. :D

Thanks, lizabethe_517! I did think people were avoiding this thread simply because they hadn't read the books. So I'm glad to know you're not. I'm trying to post interesting tidbits from the books as I run into them.

Here's a subtitle from the first chapter of Fermat's Last Theorem, published 1998, on page 14 that eveybody can understand! "Everything Is Number."

Oh, and Becky would like the part I'm reading now. It's all about the relationship between math and music.

[fadedambition]

There are people that are in criminology or have studied it here right?

Have any of you ever used this book or its previous edition?

Statistics in Criminology and Criminal Justice: Analysis and Interpretation, Second Edition - Jeffery Walker, Sean Maddan

ISBN: 0763730718

http://www.jbpub.com/catalog/0763730718/

I'd be interested in seeing the table of contents for it. It seems like a very applicable book for the show ;) :) (though one of the things I am curious about is this an introduction to statistical techniques or is this advanced statistical analysis and probability theory as applied in criminology).

Trying to ascertain if it is worth dropping $90 on!

[LetterstoElise]

I'd search used bookstores first.

Its not intro stats, but it's for students, so it is a very "crime stats for dummys" feel to it. If you've got the 90 duckets, and you're going to use it in your life, buy it. If its just a read, go to the library.

[Shiva]

There are people that are in criminology or have studied it here right?

Have any of you ever used this book or its previous edition?

Statistics in Criminology and Criminal Justice: Analysis and Interpretation, Second Edition - Jeffery Walker, Sean Maddan

ISBN: 0763730718

http://www.jbpub.com/catalog/0763730718/

I'd be interested in seeing the table of contents for it. It seems like a very applicable book for the show ;) :) (though one of the things I am curious about is this an introduction to statistical techniques or is this advanced statistical analysis and probability theory as applied in criminology).

Trying to ascertain if it is worth dropping $90 on!

Wow, faded! Well, I'm going into criminalistics in college, and one of the courses I have to take is statistics. So I'm assuming that this book deals more with statistics in criminology itself. But I could be wrong (and probably am, heh).

But it does sound interesting. I'll check it out sometime. 8)

[mathfan9]

I finished the first chapter of Fermat's Enigma and it had a good example in there of the difference between the way a scientist uses 'proof' and the way a mathematician uses it.

This book is interesting, but so far, it has not been as fascinating as The Tipping Point was. Maybe it will pick up in later chapters.

[whitetigertasa]

I am reading a book called "The Math Instinct: Why You're a Mathematical Genius (Along with Lobsters, Birds, Cats, and Dogs)" By Keith Devlin. This book shows that math is present in nature.

[mathfan9]

I am reading a book called "The Math Instinct: Why You're a Mathematical Genius (Along with Lobsters, Birds, Cats, and Dogs)" By Keith Devlin. This book shows that math is present in nature.

I haven't read this book, but I read two others by the same author, Life By the Numb3rs and Mathematics, the Science of Patterns. He's a very good author. There is an NPR interview transcript on the forum in which he talks about Numb3rs as well as other things.

Regarding the "Everything is Number" quote that I found in Fermat's Enigma, the book says that this quote goes all the way back to Pythagoras of Pythagorean Theorem fame. It says that he realized that numbers were hidden in everything from the harmonies of music to the orbits of the planets, and this lead him to proclaim that "Everything is Number."

[Shiva]

Regarding the "Everything is Number" quote that I found in Fermat's Enigma, the book says that this quote goes all the way back to Pythagoras of Pythagorean Theorem fame. It says that he realized that numbers were hidden in everything from the harmonies of music to the orbits of the planets, and this lead him to proclaim that "Everything is Number."

There's a short little blurb about this quote in The Golden Ratio, too, and it also links to Pythagoras. I'm still pretty early in the book, though, so I'm not sure if it discusses this topic any further.

[mathfan9]

There's a short little blurb about this quote in The Golden Ratio, too, and it also links to Pythagoras. I'm still pretty early in the book, though, so I'm not sure if it discusses this topic any further.

I thought that was kind of neat, to see that particular phrase going all the way back to Pythagoras.

Where I'm reading now in Fermat's Enigma, the author is explaining Fermat's involvement in the growing area of probability. Prior to the seventeenth century, gamblers just used their intuition. But Fermat and another amateur mathematician, Pascal, tried to discover the mathematical rules that described the laws of chance. That was such an odd idea to most people that even three centuries later, Bertrand Russell said, "How dare we speak of the laws of chance? Is not chance the antithesis of all law?"

[Brainysmurf00]

Hey guys, the movie version of the play "Proof"is coming out Sept 16th.
You can see the trailer here:
http://movies.channel.aol.com/movie/main.adp?tab=trailers&mid=18015
Looks pretty good!

[fadedambition]

Hey guys, the movie version of the play "Proof"is coming out Sept 16th.
You can see the trailer here:
http://movies.channel.aol.com/movie/main.adp?tab=trailers&mid=18015
Looks pretty good!

We're sorry but this feature is unsupported in FireFox

Damn you AOL! *mock Stewie from Family Guy voice*

*opens up IE*

Well it took three times to get the ActiveX Controller installed, but it turned out to be well worth it. I'll be sure to mark my calender for Sept 16th! :)

[fadedambition]

By the way with bringing back a bunch of my Computer stuff from Iowa I brought back two sizable boxes of books. I'll post their titles later!

[mathfan9]

Here is Becky's summary of The Man Who Loved Only Numbers from another thread.

Cool, Becky - thanks!!! So - how is "The Man who Loved Only Numbers"? I've got it on my list . . .

It's fascinating. Full of stories, full of math. It's funny, it's somewhat poignant, and it's bizarre.

This guy, Paul Erdos (Air-dish) was quite a character. Had no need for anything but numbers. Didn't own a house, a car, or more belongings than he could fit in a suitcase and a garment bag. Well, he had books, which he kept at a colleague's house. He travelled the world, moving from mathematician to mathematician (usually living in their house with them for a month or so), and worked with each of them on whatever they were doing. Or he'd bring them a problem to work on.

He liked number theory the best (at least so far in the book). One thing that the author said that struck me was that numbers are perfect, where physics is not. The author used the example of a triangle, whose angles add up to a perfect 180 degrees, where in the physical world, they simply can't. A circle isn't a perfect circle in reality (like the top of a round glass), yet in math it is.

Side note: I love the way this show is making me look at the world from a completely different viewpoint. Nothing wrong with how I saw it before (mostly from an artistic POV), but so many new dimensions have been added!

He seems to have been a teacher par extraordinaire. He'd talk to anyone about math, if they were interested, no matter what level of ability they had. (There's a great little story about how he helped a high school senior who lived in Hawaii.) He'd get a group of mathematicians together in a room, and work his way around the circle, working with each person on their problem, then by the time he got back to the first person, they'd have moved along far enough for him to work with them more.

Erdos gave away almost every penny he earned or was awarded. He simply had no use for it. One of the things he did (and friends are continuing) was to set up rewards for problems. The rewards ranged from a dollar to thousands, depending upon the difficulty.

Charlie says that math can be lonely -- that was definitely not Erdos's view. For him, math was a social event. He seems to have left a huge hole in many people's lives when he died.

I highly recommend this book -- those who have trouble with math (like me) can still get the sense of the applications he worked on, and I would think that anyone with any talent at all in math would understand quite a bit of it.

Becky

[mathfan9]

I finished Fermat's Enigma today. What a great book! I highly recommend it. It's a little slow at first, but bear with it. It goes back into each area that was used in Andrew Wiles' proof of Fermat's Last theorem, so there is a lot of math history in there in addition to the present-day part about the proof.

If you remember the proof of the Riemann Hypothesis in "Prime Suspect" as being a 150-year-old math problem, the proof of Fermat's Last Theorem was a 350-year-old math problem that was just proved in 1996. It's an incredible story!

The next book I want to read, and undoubtably the last this summer, is Prime Obsession. It is the history of the attempts to prove the Riemann Hypothesis.

[Shiva]

Okay, so this isn't really a book, but I'm not quite sure where else to put it...

Totally by accident today I watched a movie called Pi. It was on TV on the Sundance channel. Doing some research I discovered that it played at the Sundance Film Festival in 1998.

It was... wow. :shock: Here's a synopsis:


The grainy, overexposed, black and white look of "Pi," winner of the directing award at this year's Sundance Film Festival, coerces the audience into a paranoid, surrealistic perspective.

It's the same perspective Max Cohen (Sean Gullette) has of the whole world. Max is a tortured genius, a mathematical prodigy obsessed with his quest for a formula he is convinced is at the center of existence itself. Everything can be understood through mathematics, he reasons, and he wants to understand everything.

This omniscience formula -- he knows it contains 216 digits, but that's all he knows -- is omnipresent, Max discovers. He knows it can be found hiding in everything from stock prices to religious texts. But Max is already an unstable dude who has to take a handful of pills every day just to keep his brain from overloading, and his obsession with this elusive number is driving him mad. What's more, he knows it.

Written and directed by Darren Aronofsky, "Pi" engulfs the audience in Max's world. Every line of dialogue, indeed every small action, is packed with meaning in this taxingly potent film. Aronofsky's inspired storytelling is ingenious in its infinitely complex concepts that are somehow still accessible and fascinating. This isn't a movie about a cute guy who does math, like "Good Will Hunting." This is a movie about nothing but math, and yet it's so mesmerizing that it welds you to your seat, eyes locked on the screen.

As Max verges on solving this universal mystery, he grows more delusional and more brilliant simultaneously. He gets frequent nosebleeds and often blacks out from exploding headaches, and he is driven to distraction by hounding Wall Street industrial spies looking for stock patterns and a Kabblah Jewish sect hoping to recruit him to find hidden meaning in the Torah.

An Icarus parallel Gullette brings to Max's pharmaceutically-regulated genius is fascinating. Max is convinced he is close to discovering order in chaos on a universal level, and Gullette's exhausted, possessed eyes expose all the character's vulnerability and nearly involuntary drive.

He is at the center of every scene -- in fact he spends most of the film alone in his makeshift laboratory of an apartment, littered with old computer parts knocked together into a jumble of wires, screens and keyboards. Even when other characters are on the screen -- well-meaning neighbors trying to bring him out of his shell, representatives of the sect or the brokers -- our eyes never leave his.

Aronofsky's command over the viewer in "Pi" is uncomfortable but irresistibly seductive. He overtly manipulates every impression that comes off the screen.

The mood is driven by diligently composed photography and an unrelenting techno soundtrack, used not to make the movie hip but to take you inside Max's pounding head. Even the fact it's in washed-out black and white is significant, symbolizing not only the pure nature of mathematics, but driving home the fact that there are no shades of gray in this science. A formula is either proven or disproven, a solution correct or incorrect.

"Pi" is pure, concentrated and unadorned. A Kafka-esque, cerebral, minimalist thriller, all the more amazing for being made on the cheap for $60,000.


Has anyone else come across this movie? I'd love to talk more about it! :D

[mathfan9]

I've heard of it (being a math teacher), and have even come close to renting it a few times. But all the reviews seem to say that it ended badly, and I am definitely a "happily-ever-after" person. So when it came down to actually watching it, I never could make myself do it.

Is it as depressing as the reviewers make it sound?

[LetterstoElise]

Hey Shiva - I think its a great movie, except I never saw it through a mathematician's eyes. I saw it through the religion major's eyes. It's a very different movie from those two perspectives.
It's fantastic. I love how it's filmed. I adore every part. Even the icky part. (Note how careful I am to not give it away). It was the first time i went "Hey... math does relate to many things... nah, not everything though." Then I stumbled around and a few years later I saw numb3rs and have since confirmed that yes. Math is everywhere.

[Brainysmurf00]

I've definitely seen it, and I think it's on the list on the first page. I was a little weary of recommending it at first to Numb3rs fans because I felt very uncomfortable watching the movie (even more so during Aronofsky's Requiem for a Dream). Max is a kind of anti-Charlie. He's a brilliant mathematician, but brilliant in the other direction: self-destructive, anti-social, and mad. He's like the Charlie of Uncertainty Principle to THE EXTREME. Pi is definitely a good movie, but I can't really say I enjoyed it. It's not a fun movie, but it is certainly interesting.

[LetterstoElise]

mathfan - not so much depressing... but without giving it away - knowledge is dangerous and powerful. The ending is violent and "gross" (to those not liking autopsies and the such) and graphic.
the point is...driven home with the ending.

[mathfan9]

Hmm...It still sounds depressing. Anti-Charlie? But maybe one day, I'll have to break down and watch it. It will have to be next summer, though. I have one week left of this summer (sob!), and it's almost already full.

[Brainysmurf00]

Mathfan, I still wouldn't say it's depressing. It's more like a Math Horror flick. The character does a lot of drugs and gets very paranoid, so for part of the movie, it seems that all the people that are interested in him and his work, are sinister people chasing him. The character's instability is also kind of scary. And the way it is filmed makes everything look harsher.

ETA: I still recommend it.

[mathfan9]

Mathfan, I still wouldn't say it's depressing. It's more like a Math Horror flick.

Uh, this is not helping. I HATE horror flicks and won't even watch them with my husband. I just see no point in artifically scaring myself. I certainly do not enjoy actually being scared, so I see no reason to artificially create that emotion.

But since you recommend it, I'll try to give it a chance.

[LetterstoElise]

You hate horror flicks? Oh my god they're my favorite things! Zombies, ghosts, murderers, serials, sociopaths, werewolves, zombies, did i mention zombies, oh and zombies, and pyschological damages and AH i love 'em.

[Shiva]

Horror film is a really round-about way of classifying it--I'd say it's more of a thriller film. If that makes sense?

Anyway, here's the website, take a look:

http://www.pithemovie.com

[mathfan9]

You hate horror flicks? Oh my god they're my favorite things! Zombies, ghosts, murderers, serials, sociopaths, werewolves, zombies, did i mention zombies, oh and zombies, and pyschological damages and AH i love 'em.

I don't mind those things when they are done in humor or when the story turns out all right in the end. But I hate Horror movies where you're just scared all the time, like Scream. I was in and out while my husband was watching that, and I just found it completely distasteful!

[divia]

I would say that Pi defies classification. There is a gross part (maybe more; it's been awhile) and it's generally unsettling. I would not call it a horror film. It's tough to watch though. You may have to scrub it out of your head afterwards. Check it out. Be brave.

[mathfan9]

I would say that Pi defies classification. There is a gross part (maybe more; it's been awhile) and it's generally unsettling. I would not call it a horror film. It's tough to watch though. You may have to scrub it out of your head afterwards. Check it out. Be brave.

OK. Next summer. Once school starts, that's the end of much movie- watching or book-reading. Plus my martial arts test is coming up just about the same time that school starts, so that's where any spare time this week will go.

[Brainysmurf00]

Yeah, I knew calling it a horror flick would be controversial. It is like a thriller, but there was something more creepy and sinister about it. I know this is not really what you like to hear, Mathfan, but I'm just being honest. Aronofsky's style is also off-putting to a lot of people I know, but I say, grit your teeth and bare it. It is very interesting. I think the most apropos part of the summary Shiva posted is the description of the movie as being an "Icarus parallel" - can't really say that story had a happy ending.

[LetterstoElise]

I agree with you on calling it a thriller. I'd never classify it as horror - then again, im a huge horror buff.

Thriller makes sense. It's psychological. It's disturbing.
the Math, the theories and the philosophy make the film.
Math fan. you'll hate the ending.

[mathfan9]

I agree with you on calling it a thriller. I'd never classify it as horror - then again, im a huge horror buff.

Thriller makes sense. It's psychological. It's disturbing.
the Math, the theories and the philosophy make the film.
Math fan. you'll hate the ending.

You all are really not doing a very good job convincing me to watch this film. Maybe by next summer, I'll 'accidentally' forget about watching it! I guess I'll just have to think of it like Moby Dick. I knew I wouldn't enjoy reading that, but I did it because my senior English teacher was so sure that it was great literature. I read it ten years after graduating from high school. (I never took English in college.)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ETA: By the way, to get back on topic, Prime Obsession is turning out to be an interesting book. In all the odd chapters, the author goes through the math required to understand the Riemann Hypothesis, and in the even chapters he goes through the history. So it's like a math and history book in one.

[mathfan9]

Now I'm into one of the history chapters of Prime Obsession. It's very interesting. I'm learning historical information that I never quite put together before.

[prbabe]

Mathfan9, although one scene in particular is rather disturbing, I do think that Pi is worth watching. I also recently saw the film, and what I took away from it was an "everything is numbers" sort of view - that so many things in this world (like religion and science), that we believed to be unrelated may in fact be deeply connected.

You sure are tearing into a lot of books mathfan9. Thanks so much for your input and making this thread so interesting.
:D

[mathfan9]

The books are sort of my professional development for the summer. I like to know as many details as possible so I can make the math more interesting for my students.

Here's a quote from Prime Obsession that I plan to read to my students this fall:

"Published mathematical papers often have irritating assertions of the type: 'It now follows that...,' or: 'It is now obvious that...' when it doesn't follow, and it isn't obvious at all, unless you put in the six hours that the author did to supply the missing steps and checking them...[Gauss] would not publish a paper if he hadn't enough time to polish it to perfection.'

[fadedambition]

Well I mean it has something to do with what we're taught as well, because publication space is precious so if we have something like

Definition of Convergent Sequence

A sequence (Sn) is said to be convergent to a real number s if and only if:

Given any Epsilon positive ( e > 0 ) There exists a real number N (that is N in R) such that for all n in the natural numbers (n in N (NOTE: N is an abbreviation for the Natural Numbers and N is just a real number we've created for this definition) n > N implies |Sn - s| < Epsilon

Well if you were using this definition to to prove what a sequence converged to let's say then you'd need and epsilon and and N. Well epsilon is abritrary so perhaps that's not so important but typically N is calculated in relation to that Epsilon. Well since it was based on an arbitrary number we don't mention it since that gives it arbitrary precision. So if you are familar with the definition and I just told you I use the value of N = 1/4 you might conclude I had an epsilon of 4. Though this again requires familarity with the definition and with how to use it in problems. That is the assumption in published papers for journals since its for peers not necessarily the general public. So sure I could create a paper where I list all the definitions I use and show every step of the work, but it wouln't get published as is. It would be heavily edited to remove all of those portions since for a journal's audience you are assumed to have the appropriate background for reading the paper.

I mean I use that as an example because that is one I was explicitly taught in an Analysis class we never showed our calculations for N because we were told not to we did it on scratch paper and then threw that away once we had it.

The point is we're not allowed to publish in most journals at that level.

So comments like "It now follows that" and "It is now obvious that" are just lines we're told to put into these sorts of things because there wasn't space to illustrate the detailed work. We're generally never given a choice as to whether we want to show the work or not because even if we did it'd get edited out anyways or it would never get published...

Though on the other side calculations aside it does all follow if you structured any mathematical paper as just a rather large Tautology (or related logical device). There would be no jumps of continuity in such a structure. While logical consistency is something that is tested in published works only in logic is it ever presented that formally. Mathematics like Algebra and Analysis tend to use there own versions of logic (notation and what not) to illustrate the same things. So sure if everyone in the public was completely versed in formal logic then all Mathematics could be written in formal logic and then it would all be obvious as it follows from the structured tautology. Unfortunately it doesn't seem likely that the public will ever get that disciplined of an education in logic and probably no where near enough interested in Mathematics to try to compell the field to re-represent its works in that sort of structure. *shrugs* so is the way things developed, we'll see where they go though all hope isn't entirely lost ;) :)

[fadedambition]

Like looking at that definition I just posted consider this:

call everything before the if and only if p
call what's after it q

We now have p <=> q

That is p => q
and
q => p

So we have

p => q
p
therefore q

q => p
q
therefore p

therefore p <=> q

<=> is if and only if (that is it is the statement for logical equivalent)

There is a software system called PVS which a friend of mine showed me when he was in a verifications class. It is an automated theorem proving software, but you have to show all the theorems in this sort of logical structure. It is a very unusual way to go about mathematics (he was a computer scientist and well they don't just use it to prove math but you can use it to prove math statements). It reminds me more of the structure for like my experiences with abstract algebra then general mathematics. We were working on a graph theory problem using this system and I was showing him the solution mathematically, but it was frustrating because I couldn't easily see how to illustrate the problem to the PVS software. So yeah it'd be quite a learning curve if all Mathematicians were required to not just do the math in their own mathematical form but then do the logical reduction for it to prove it all does follow from what is said. ;) :)

[mathfan9]

Well I mean it has something to do with what we're taught as well, because publication space is precious...


So comments like "It now follows that" and "It is now obvious that" are just lines we're told to put into these sorts of things because there wasn't space to illustrate the detailed work. We're generally never given a choice as to whether we want to show the work or not because even if we did it'd get edited out anyways or it would never get published...

Oh, that definitely was not meant as a slam against professional mathematicians. I want to use the quoted remark to try to explain to my high school students that, despite appearances, professional mathematicians do get stuck on problems and have to spend time thinking about them and puzzling over them. So many of my students think that if you are good in math, you just automatically know the answers. They never see their textbooks or their teachers struggle with problems: the books because they don't have room and their purpose is explanation, and their teachers because they've been through the material multiple times, they don't have enough time, and their purpose is explanation. So I think that's it's worth pointing out that mathematical problem-solving is actually more of a messy sort of activity, just like problem-solving in other areas.

[fadedambition]

ahh I see. That's interesting. :)

[mathfan9]

Another interesting tidbit from Prime Obsession (p. 64): "A lay person might think it would be satisfying enough to know the number to half a dozen places of decimals. No: mathematicians want to know it exactly, if they can. Not just because they are weird obsessives, but because they know from experience that getting that exact value often opens unexpected doors and throws light on the underlying math."

See -- Mathematicians and math teachers are not just weird obsessives, no matter what my students might tell you!

[Bunty]

Hi, first post as an official member of the board. As a longtime reader, I decided to put my first post here with an introductory post to follow later in the new member thread.

I just finished the fifth book in a mystery series by Jo Bannister. She is a British author.

1. Echoes of Lies (2001)
2. True Witness (2002)
3. Reflections (2003)
4. The Depths of Solitude (2004)
5. Breaking Faith (2005)

Daniel Hood, one of the main characters, is a former math teacher unable to teach because of a traumatic event in his past. He now suffers panic attacks whenever surrounded by people.

In this particular book there were several quotes I found interesting in light of watching Numb3rs and reading this forum.

Daniel is talking about what math means to him.

Numbers are different. Numbers I can do. . . They always and only mean one thing: you can't twist them to mean something else. . . [Numbers] light up my universe. The kids I teach see maths as a hurdle to be overcome, not a beauty to be owned. . . There's a lot going on around me that I don't understand. I'm running so hard to stay in the same place I haven't time to notice that actually I'm on the wrong escalator. It worries me, that all this stuff is going on and doesn't make any sense to me. But numbers I understand. Numbers keep me safe.

[LetterstoElise]

OOh Bunty... Fantastic quote, and congrats on your first post! Welcome to the board!

I really might check out these books now!

[Icebox]

There's a book that my dad was reading called 'The Rule Of Four' by Ian Caldwell.

Has anyone else figured the codes in the back of the Dan Brown books?

[LetterstoElise]

hey icebox, never heard of the codes in the back of his books. I'm not a DB fan per se.


BUT THATS NOT THE POINT:
the point is that information should be free and unlimited to the public.
here is a free ebook site. I've already downloaded Dostoevsky. It's called Project Greenburg. They've a giant disclaimer about legalities on the site which I reccomend you read.

then download the booky goodness.

http://www.gutenberg.org/

[mathfan9]

I haven't been able to read much of Prime Obsession since school started. But it's a very good book for any newbie who is interested in the Riemann hypothesis.

[LeWombat]

Just thought I'd bump this up.

We've got a new season starting in - Aaaahhhhhhh - seven days, and we'll likely be getting more newbies. I think it would be great that they know this thread exists.

[Lisa]

Just thought I'd bump this up.

We've got a new season starting in - Aaaahhhhhhh - seven days, and we'll likely be getting more newbies. I think it would be great that they know this thread exists.

I actually want to go to the beginning and start reading some of these - finally.

[mathfan9]

I actually want to go to the beginning and start reading some of these - finally.

I have some book news. While I was in the Barnes and Noble not getting my TV Guide, I picked up a mystery/thriller called The Pythagorean Solution. It is sort of on the order of The DaVinci Code or Cryptonomicon. I probably won't get a chance to read it for awhile, but I couldn't pass up that title!

[LetterstoElise]

OK, the book, so far, isn't mathematically related... but math is used in the study!
and... and... it is kinda used for FBI...

ok fine. so the connection is that I love forensic anthro.


Stiff by Mary Roach (the story of cadavers)

[prbabe]

Hey guys -

I'm back from vacation, so I will make updates shortly.
Thanks to everyone for keeping this thread alive.

You all rock!

prbabe

[LeWombat]

Welcome back Prbabe!

This thread is very important. And hopefully we'll be getting newbies coming on board and won't they be thrilled to find suggestions for companion reading to Numb3rs. :)

[prbabe]

Thanks LeWombat!

I have updated the list. Special shout -outs to Bunty, Icebox, LetterstoElise and Mathfan9 for the new additions, and to fadedambition for the interesting analysis.
:D

After taking the last part of the summer off, I'm about to dive right into some fresh books. What's everyone reading?

[Shiva]

I was thinking of resurrecting this thread, I just haven't had time to. Welcome back, prbabe!!

I'm still working on The Golden Ratio. I have about a third to go. I'm already discussing it with my math professors, but I'd love to talk about it with other people here, too! (Have you already discussed it? I know I was late to jump on the bandwagon for that one).

After I finish The Golden Ratio I'm either going to read Blink by Malcom Gladwell, The Big Bang by Simon Singh, or The Fabric of the Cosmos by Brian Greene. The first two aren't really math-related, aside from the fact that their authors wrote The Tipping Point and Fermat's Engima, respectively. The third deals mostly with physics.

Any input?

[Bunty]

Thanks LeWombat!

I have updated the list. Special shout -outs to Bunty, Icebox, LetterstoElise and Mathfan9 for the new additions, and to fadedambition for the interesting analysis.
:D

After taking the last part of the summer off, I'm about to dive right into some fresh books. What's everyone reading?

Aww, thanks prbabe

My first shout-out :cool:

[omphale23]

Shiva--I read both Blink and Fabric of the Cosmos, and liked the Greene book better--but then I'm biased. I did like The Tipping Point, just thought Gladwell's new one wasn't quite as well argued. For what it's worth.

I just found this, and I'm excited about dipping into the stuff I haven't read yet. There are so many good recommendations that I'm not sure where to start. That said, can I add a few to the list that I have read? I don't think I saw any of these above; if I missed them I apologize.

Gifted Children by Ellen Winner talks about expanding giftedness to include other types of talent, as well as addressing some myths about giftedness. It's a clear, well-written introduction to some of the issues that gifted children and adults face.

The Hidden Connections by Fritjof Capra and Patterns in the Sand by Bossomaier and Green both take on my own pet question set--expanding complexity theory to new disciplines and questions. Lots of good questions about psychology, consciousness, articificial intelligence, biology, and how math and physics interact.

Chaos and Harmony by Trinh Xuan Thuan is a brief and mostly jargon-free history of scientific revolutions in the 20th century: gravity, symmetry, fractals, atoms, cosmology--lots of fun stuff, and a current of how important math is running through it all. Sure, it's physics, but it's by an astronomer, and isn't Amita working on a phd in astrophysics now? (Have to say, this is my favorite non-textbook, non-practitioner physics book.)

A Tour of the Calculus by David Berlinski is just what it says--an overview of lots of calculus and math principles, with stories and equations where appropriate. My brother called it calculus for the math-phobic when I suggested it to him, and he liked it even though he's a history major (I was trying to convert him to the Numb3rs cause at the time.)

ETA: code where I left it out *repeats to self "open bracket, close bracket"*

[Connie]

Can I say that I love this thread? I've been adding to my reading list lately, and found that I had actually added more math/science related books.

Here are some suggestions

In Code: A Mathematical Journey: by Flannery, Sarah, and Flannery, David

I found this book while just browsing through the aisles of my local bookshop. I can't tell you too much since I'm still in the middle of reading it, but here's a little synopsis, which caught my attention immediately. You'll probably see why ;)

From Library Journal
"I have no doubt that I am not a genius," writes Sarah Flannery, the 16-year-old Irish girl who won first place in the 1999 European Union Contest for Young Scientists. Nonetheless, her project about public key cryptography, the method used to transmit secure data over the Internet, created a media sensation. Until a security hole was discovered, some believed that Sarah's encryption algorithm could be worth millions, and she became an instant celebrity. Though her mathematician father helped write this book, Sarah's own heartfelt enthusiasm is obvious. She is breathlessly excited to get a phone call from a mathematician whose papers she has read, frustrated by the difficult math in research journals, flattered by media attention, and genuinely intrigued by the mathematics of encryption, which she valiantly explains. A particularly touching moment comes when Sarah is overjoyed to see her dad because she finally has somebody who will talk with her about mathematics. The prize-winning contest paper is included as an appendix. Despite the advanced math discussed here, this will appeal to high school and college students because the author is a very young mathematician and does a commendable job of explaining how she got interested in such an intense science project.


The Equation that Couldn't Be Solved : How Mathematical Genius Discovered the Language of Symmetry by Mario Livio

This book felt like an adventure, and was a refreshing read.

[fadedambition]

I remember hearing about Sarah Flannery on the MathWorld site.

Right now I am reading the following (mostly again for more detail and for my research):

Stephen Wolfram: "Mathematica" (4th and 5th editions)

Stephen Wolfram: "A New Kind of Science"

Joseph L. Zachary: "Introduction to Scientific Programming: Computational Problem Solving Using Mathematica and C"

Chonat Getz, Janet Helmstedt: "Graphics with Mathematica: Fractals, Julia Sets, Patterns and Natural Forms"

Roman Maeder: "Programming in Mathematica, Third Edition" (though I wish there was an updated version of this book for Mathematica 5 if not 5.2)

Bertrand Russell: "The Principles of Mathematics" (not to be confused with the work he did with Whitehead called 'Principia Mathematica' but it contains some elements from that since it was written later)

[prbabe]

Thanks Shiva and Bunty!
I'm glad that you are enjoying the thread.

:cool:

I was thinking of resurrecting this thread, I just haven't had time to. Welcome back, prbabe!!

I'm still working on The Golden Ratio. I have about a third to go. I'm already discussing it with my math professors, but I'd love to talk about it with other people here, too! (Have you already discussed it? I know I was late to jump on the bandwagon for that one).


I just finished The Golden Ratio. Let's chat.
What part are you up to?

Thanks Omphale23, Connie and Fadedambition for the great suggestions.
:D

[LeWombat]

Since we have a lot of new folks coming on I want to make sure they know about this list.

Lots of people have contributed to it, including Cheryl and Nick, and Prbabe does an excellent job of keeping it updated.

There is a wide range to choose from. Books for the novice, non-mathy folks as well as the more advanced. I think my next selection will be Tipping Point. It seems to be relevant right now.

Enjoy! :)

[eatmoechikin]

I missed this thread. Didn't you LeWombat?

[woog]

In Code: A Mathematical Journey: by Flannery, Sarah, and Flannery, David



Sarah Flannery was at my university giving lectures and demonstrations on Mathematica a few months back.

Prior to that I found her book in a local book shop for 5 aussie dollars!!!

[woog]

Beyond Einstein by Michio Kaku - on strings and the theory of everything

Mathematics: a Very Short Introduction by Timothy Gowers - a non rigorous book about math. Fits in your pocket

Quantum Theory: a Very Short Introduction by John Polkinghorne - as above

Geometry, Relativity and the Fourth Dimension by Rudolf v. B. Rucker

The Myth of Ability by John Mighton - on teaching mathematics. The author believes anyone can do mathematics.

Question: I'm wondering if Fermat Enigma is the same as a book I have, Fermat's Last Theorem, printed under a different title. First chapter of my book is 'I think I'll Stop here'.

[LeWombat]

I missed this thread. Didn't you LeWombat?
Yes I did!

And look, we've got new recommendations. (I'm assuming they're new, but I haven't checked it against the list.)

Welcome Woog!

[omphale23]

I have been looking all over for this so that I could link to it. Thanks for resurrecting it (and new books, to boot!)

[woog]

Thanks LeWombat!

I think they are new... I checked them against the list before I posted them.

[prbabe]

Beyond Einstein by Michio Kaku - on strings and the theory of everything

Mathematics: a Very Short Introduction by Timothy Gowers - a non rigorous book about math. Fits in your pocket

Quantum Theory: a Very Short Introduction by John Polkinghorne - as above

Geometry, Relativity and the Fourth Dimension by Rudolf v. B. Rucker

The Myth of Ability by John Mighton - on teaching mathematics. The author believes anyone can do mathematics.

Question: I'm wondering if Fermat Enigma is the same as a book I have, Fermat's Last Theorem, printed under a different title. First chapter of my book is 'I think I'll Stop here'.

Welcome Woog! Thanks for the great suggestions. I have updated the list.
And to answer your question, yes, it appears to be the same book.

Also, thanks to Wombat and Eatmoechikin for the resurrection.
:D

[mathfan9]

Today Half-Price Books offered a 20% discount to teachers buying books, and so my husband dragged me along with him so that he could get a new history of art book with the discount.

While I was there, I found three new books about math: Lost Discoveries -- The Ancient Roots of Modern Science, which has 68 pages on mathematics as the language of science; Bridges to Infinity -- The Human Side of Mathematics, and The Story of Mathematics. I don't know how soon I'll get around to reading them, but they all look very interesting. The Bridges to Infinity one is by the same guy who wrote Five Equations that Changed the World.

Needless to say, I don't think we saved a whole lot of money by having me go so he could get the discount.

[UGHI]

Here are two books I read as part of a statistics course that I think have a lot of practical applications and that people might find interesting. They aren't about numbers and mathematics per say, but more about how people use numbers and statistics as forms of persuasion.

Statistics as Principled Argument ~ Robert P. Abelson
How to Lie with Statistics ~ Darrell Huff author Irving Geis illustrator

[fadedambition]

Here are two books I read as part of a statistics course that I think have a lot of practical applications and that people might find interesting. They aren't about numbers and mathematics per say, but more about how people use numbers and statistics as forms of persuasion.

Statistics as Principled Argument ~ Robert P. Abelson
How to Lie with Statistics ~ Darrell Huff author Irving Geis illustrator

A stats book I have is:

Biostatistics: A Foundation for Analysis in the Health Sciences (7th Ed)
Wayne W Daniel

It goes through a lot of aspects of descriptive and inferential statistics. A lot of motived examples in the health sciences. It has some more advanced analytical techniques, but it is definitely an excellent statistical reference.